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Pop and Rock Stars... and underage girls

Orang Utan said:
These girls and boys ('groupies') were passed around like currency. They were often intoxicated. I'm not sure if an intoxicated teen under the age of consent could be regarded as being capable of consent, no.
Yes, the rock stars were also often intoxicated too, but they were over the age of consent.
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David Cassidy, the women were 'stripped for action', described as 'canned goods'

Unbelieveable really.
 
Being a rock star you're not exactly short of choice, so if you are choosing the underage girl out of all others, you have to wonder why. Is it because it's wrong that makes it so tempting? Being able to get what you want when you want leads to needing some new kind of challenge? We're all these stars competing to get the youngest one? "Oh guess what I did last night, aren't I terrible!"

As someone upthread said, teenage girls may be able to look a bit older than they are, but talking to them, IME, it's easy to work out that they are not, especially if you have 15+ years on them. The immaturity shines through.
 
Buddy Bradley said:
I find the differences in the age of consent across countries interesting. Do you think if we were all Spanish (where it's 13, iirc) we would be quite so ERMAGHERD RAPE about it?
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It's 16 in Spain. In Austria, Germany, Portugal and Italy it's 14. Having lived in Portugal and Spain people would be horrified if an older man was having sex with a much younger girl. It is only "acceptable" to have sex with a young girl if you are also young. The age difference is what's important. A 14 yr old with a 14 - 16 yr old is acceptable, with a 20+ it is a problem.
 
dessiato said:
It's 16 in Spain. In Austria, Germany, Portugal and Italy it's 14. Having lived in Portugal and Spain people would be horrified if an older man was having sex with a much younger girl. It is only "acceptable" to have sex with a young girl if you are also young. The age difference is what's important. A 14 yr old with a 14 - 16 yr old is acceptable, with a 20+ it is a problem.
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Yup. It's basic common sense really.
 
Just read this on facebook, no idea if true, might read up more on it later.

Lori Mattix was born in 1958. Bowie's first tour of America was in 72-73, it's easy to look that up. She also states she met Page in 73' while Zeppelin were touring 'Houses of the Holy (released in 73).. I hate to be cynical, but as Mattix has got older the age she met those guys has got lower. But the years don't change.
 
dessiato said:
It's 16 in Spain. In Austria, Germany, Portugal and Italy it's 14. Having lived in Portugal and Spain people would be horrified if an older man was having sex with a much younger girl. It is only "acceptable" to have sex with a young girl if you are also young. The age difference is what's important. A 14 yr old with a 14 - 16 yr old is acceptable, with a 20+ it is a problem.
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I think it's a very hard thing to make laws about, tbh. Here we have 16, but in practice, it's not really treated like that - a 16-17 year old is never going to be prosecuted for sex with a 14-15 year old. So even if there's a clear line in theory, in practice, there isn't, those upholding the law put a fuzziness on it.

Holland's probably came closest to legislating for what actually happens in the real world by legalising sex as young as 12 in some circumstances. Holland has extremely low rates of teenage pregnancy, too. Practical legislation can help produce results.
 
Ranbay said:
Just read this on facebook, no idea if true, might read up more on it later.

Lori Mattix was born in 1958. Bowie's first tour of America was in 72-73, it's easy to look that up. She also states she met Page in 73' while Zeppelin were touring 'Houses of the Holy (released in 73).. I hate to be cynical, but as Mattix has got older the age she met those guys has got lower. But the years don't change.
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I looked it up earlier. Her story with Bowie is perfectly plausible. First met him in 72, had sex with him in 73. Not sure there's too much story-changing here. She was born near the end of 58.

Also, people do get dates and times of events mixed up. I know I do.

Can you remember the date, or even year, you lost your virginity? I could probably work out the year, but I'm buggered if I can remember the date or even time of year. (It wasn't winter - that's about the best I can do.) Doesn't mean I don't remember every cringeworthy amazing detail of the night in question.
 
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Ranbay said:
Just read this on facebook, no idea if true, might read up more on it later.

Lori Mattix was born in 1958. Bowie's first tour of America was in 72-73, it's easy to look that up. She also states she met Page in 73' while Zeppelin were touring 'Houses of the Holy (released in 73).. I hate to be cynical, but as Mattix has got older the age she met those guys has got lower. But the years don't change.
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Isn't that exactly what she's saying though :confused: She's 14/maybe just 15.
 
Ranbay said:
Just read this on facebook, no idea if true, might read up more on it later.

Lori Mattix was born in 1958. Bowie's first tour of America was in 72-73, it's easy to look that up. She also states she met Page in 73' while Zeppelin were touring 'Houses of the Holy (released in 73).. I hate to be cynical, but as Mattix has got older the age she met those guys has got lower. But the years don't change.
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If his tour started at the beginning of 72 she was less than 13.3 years by summer 73 she was 14.8 years. Looks like the Led Zeppelin tour ended at the same time.
 
comrade spurski said:
If you need proof that someone is above the age of consent then you should not be even thinking about sex with them.
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I think the point that you missed is that some girls don't look and act their age.


Quick quiz and don't google



Which one of these actors arent age appropriate.



a54a57fc-f58c-4b93-9ac2-1bd6e1b8732a.crop_515x271_0,55.resize_1200x630.format_jpeg.inline_yes.jpg


set_clueless_cast_640.jpg



Scott-Pilgrim-Cast.jpg



mean-girls.jpg




Some of the stuff on here is disturbing tbh.
We are not talking about a 16 or 17 yr old having sex with a 15 year old. Bowie was 30 in 1977...there is no way a 13 yr old, 14 year old or 15 yr old comes across as being an adult.
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In all of those photos one actor is either playing someone much younger or much older than their actual age. Can you spot them without googling?
 
I don't get how some people who are trying to insinuate it wasn't as bad because she had a fond memory of the experience. What if she didn't? The legal age of consent is there for a reason. He broke that which is downright fucked up and creepy. I just don't get what goes through a person's head to do something like that. As someone else said if there's any doubt then err on the side of caution. He was a rock star for fuck sake definitely using his fame for his own personal gratification.

He may have changed and he may have been a great influence on people etc and that shouldn't be taken away but that's just fucked up right there.
 
Bowies been compared to both King and Saville. King and Saville, groomed, and assaulted chidren methodically over a period of decades.

I'll keep repeating no one aside from Maddox has come forward to talk about Bowie in this way, (and Maddox has stated the sex was completely consequential ,and theres' no evidence (thats been presented on this thread) Bowie was aware she was under 15.
 
N_igma said:
The legal age of consent is there for a reason. .
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Would you say the same thing to him about the 19-20-year-old men he fucked at the time, or any of the men he fucked before he was 21? Or is it now, with benefit of hindsight, that you say 'no, that law was wrong, no problem breaking that one, but breaking this one here is unforgiveable'.
 
killer b said:
There's a difference between a 14 year old girl and a 19 year old man. This is all a bit weird.
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I agree. But purely citing the law forgets that the law at the time didn't agree. The law at the time saw a 19 year old man as not able to consent to homosexual sex.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Would you say the same thing to him about the 19-20-year-old men he fucked at the time, or any of the men he fucked before he was 21? Or is it now, with benefit of hindsight, that you say 'no, that law was wrong, no problem breaking that one, but breaking this one here is unforgiveable'.
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Well I think in relation to homosexual sex there was active campaigns by people of all persuasions to bring that in line with heterosexual sex. There was clearly something wrong with the law at the time and people fought to correct that and they did and they won!

You don't find many people fighting to bring the age of consent down because people, rationally, agree that that's where the line should be drawn.

I'm just saying that if a teenage girl threw herself at me I'd talk to her, find out who she is, who her parents are, try to get her home safely maybe. You know the adult thing to do. I certainly wouldn't think 'ah I'll just fuck her' as many famous people did and may still do.

No one is saying that what he done was anything near the same level as Saville etc but it's still creepy that's all.
 
LiamO said:
a) The blatant hypocrisy in how we view what they did. If we like or admire a person's work there is a tendency to focus on their achievements/canon of work rather than their sexual shortcomings. If we don't like them then we focus on their sexual proclivities and ignore their work.

If Bowie had been a politician, especially a tory one, or Jim Davidson or how many people would be queueing up to demand he get a poitive-comments-only RIP thread? None. In fact clowns like 8den would probably be leading the charge to pillory them.

b) I would recognise that how Bowie et al carried was wrong and exploitative but, as has been noted above, it was something that was both widespread and mostly sniggered at at the time. Anybody at the same shite these days would have no such excuses.

It seems a bit daft to me to project modern-day conventional wisdom onto the actions of people 40/50 years ago.
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Can someone please explain to me just how how this ^ is "villifying" Bowie?

Nobody who speaks English as a first language could sonstrue this as villification - unless they reeeeeally reeeeally wanted to.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Would you say the same thing to him about the 19-20-year-old men he fucked at the time, or any of the men he fucked before he was 21? Or is it now, with benefit of hindsight, that you say 'no, that law was wrong, no problem breaking that one, but breaking this one here is unforgiveable'.
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Shagging 13 year old girls was against the law then and against the law now. Shagging 19 year old blokes is no longer against the law. That's why he's being criticised for one and not the other.
 
8den said:
I think the point that you missed is that some girls don't look and act their age.


Quick quiz and don't google



Which one of these actors arent age appropriate.



a54a57fc-f58c-4b93-9ac2-1bd6e1b8732a.crop_515x271_0,55.resize_1200x630.format_jpeg.inline_yes.jpg


set_clueless_cast_640.jpg



Scott-Pilgrim-Cast.jpg



mean-girls.jpg






In all of those photos one actor is either playing someone much younger or much older than their actual age. Can you spot them without googling?
Click to expand...


:facepalm: Because looking at an image of an actor in costume is the same as watching how a real person speaks and acts in person :facepalm:
 
Patteran said:
I agree, Liam, there is a double standard. Fact is, over on Facebook, i've been mitigating his flirtation with fascism in a discussion with some of our old comrades - something I wouldn't have done for Jim Davidson, or a Tory MP, or a singer I hadn't loved since my early teens. And when it's someone less dear to me, Queen for example, I'm the first to sneer 'Sun City cunts'. Maybe it's because we saw the end of the story - when i got into Ziggy in the early 80s, Bowie was a cool older dude in a suit with a band of mixed ethnicity, wearing a haircut that every lad at the football copied. Then he was an even older dude in a polo neck with a beautiful grown-up Somalian wife. He wasn't a noncey old nazi - the story didn't end that way. Course of least resistance - a little hypocrisy/cognitive dissonance is simpler than cutting something joyful out of our cultural lives. I saw him live, once - Maine Road, 87ish, Glass Spider Tour. He was shit. That didn't matter, either, didn't affect the relationship I'd developed with him. He was Bowie, & he was ace.
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Patteran was able to read the first few posts and respond thus. Considered and honest. But then he has no agenda...

and (although I am not 100% sure exactly who he is) we also have some shared activist history.

Lemme know who you are by PM Patteran

e2a thanks Seamus.
 
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bi0boy said:
Shagging 13 year old girls was against the law then and against the law now. Shagging 19 year old blokes is no longer against the law. That's why he's being criticised for one and not the other.
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Really? I'm pretty sure there would be no-one on here that would criticise him for having sex with 19-yr old boys - whatever the law of the time said.
 
LiamO said:
Really? I'm pretty sure there would be no-one on here that would criticise him for having sex with 19-yr old boys - whatever the law of the time said.
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lbj seems to think we can't use the fact shagging young girls is illegal to judge him because you know, it's a blurry area, and anyway the age of consent for guys was higher then so the law is an ass.
 
Rutita1 said:
Kin ell...where were her parents/guardians/family?

All of this continued well into the 80's didn't it...the whole Mandy Smith thing...Sam Fox on page 3 etc..
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Apparently her single mum worked nights, so she'd go out with some of her junior high school friends who were also "Baby Groupies".
 
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