Politics for a dummy

[TeeJay]

The people in your last sentence, obviously, share your dislike of class as a concept

Eh? So you think that marxist who take up arms in an armed struggle to overthrow an oppressive regime "dislike class as a concept"? Rubbish - they use it as their motivating ideology, and chose armed struggle becasue they are faced with a really nasty dictatorship which would otherwise come and kill them.

No, Marx is not into moralism, any more than is Adam Smith. If you want a religion, there is a very scholarly Muslim amongst us on Urban - try him. Capitalism robs everyone of his/her full humanity, and the problem is how to reclaim it, so tactics and strategy rule.

Not into moralism? So what is this humanity you are going on about? What is valuable about it? Having a moral or ethical system and beliefs isn't the same as being religious - in fact the vast majority of ethical debate doesn't bring religion into things at all - it is a branch of philosophy.

Without some kind of ethical basis or belief why should anyone give a shit about concepts like "humanity"?

In fact whereabouts does "humanity" as a concept arise in marxist analysis?

 

[rhys gethin]

Eh? So you think that marxist who take up arms in an armed struggle to overthrow an oppressive regime "dislike class as a concept"? Rubbish - they use it as their motivating ideology, and chose armed struggle becasue they are faced with a really nasty dictatorship which would otherwise come and kill them.

If people want to fight a dictatorship, fine, and good luck to them - but that's got nothing whatever to do with marxism, which is about the victory of the working class. They use Marx as a noise to accompany their putschism. doubtless.

Not into moralism? So what is this humanity you are going on about? What is valuable about it?

Dunno - tell you when we've got it. I don't go on about things.

Having a moral or ethical system and beliefs isn't the same as being religious - in fact the vast majority of ethical debate doesn't bring religion into things at all - it is a branch of philosophy

Most Marxists are not into philosophy, as I understand the matter - the point is not to describe the world or debate ethics within it but to change it altogether.

Without some kind of ethical basis or belief why should anyone give a shit about concepts like "humanity"?

Dunno, but they certainly seem to, don't they?

In fact whereabouts does "humanity" as a concept arise in marxist analysis?

It is something we are going to create intead of the current filth, I suppose, using the best of what's been so far as models.

 

[rhys gethin]

I have been to plenty of places - in Africa, South America and Asia - where people live like this: not whole countries, but many rural communities where they practise subsistence farming and have little input from the outside economy.

You want to divide people into capitalists who own businesses and workers who earn wages? There are a vast number of poor people who own their own 'business' (in terms of farming, fishing, a small roadside stall, skills they 'sell' etc) - in other words self-employed. There are also many people who work for a 'wage' but who are also vastly rich and own lots of shres in their pension funds. There are also a large number of people in the UK and similar countries who both earn a more moderate wage but also have shares and savings and own their own home.

Sorry but you 'black & white' polarised view of the world is simply unrealistic.

Well, go join 'em. Teejay: they might last out your time with a bit of luck, but they are not very relevant to the world most of us live in. When it comes to property relations and so on we'd need detailed statistics, but the people you talk about sound like simple hunter-gatherer types to me, types I've already admitted to lack exploitation and class.

 

[tbaldwin]

I appeal to all ye on this forum.. I haven't a clue when it comes to UK politics (or any politics really but lets stick to the UK for now).

Please can someone give me a brief synopsis of certain things and if I have any questions along the way.. please help me out? I really want to understand these things. Some stuff I do know already but want it clarified in the most succinct way possible (please please please). Start with the very basics:

- Left/right - what's what, what do they stand for?
- Newspapers? Which ones are left/right?
- Which countries does the uk really not get along with politically?
- What are the rules on voting in a general election in the UK?

Pretty pretty please, thank you x

Good questions.

I think its something to do with who has read the most books and got the mosts statistics....Its for clever people.

 

[nino_savatte]

Good questions.

I think its something to do with who has read the most books and got the mosts statistics....Its for clever people.

So, by your own admission, you don't read books. Nice one, balders. You're probably the most anti-intellectual person I've ever encountered (next to the US Naval officer who thought he was always right because of US military might that is).

You really are Urban's answer to Pol Pot.

 

[tbaldwin]

So, by your own admission, you don't read books.



Nice one, balders. You're probably the most anti-intellectual person I've ever encountered (next to the US Naval officer who thought he was always right because of US military might that is).

You really are Urban's answer to Pol Pot.

1 Have i ever said that Mr Goebbels?

2 Your a stuck up twat,who has no idea what your talking about most of the time.

3 You dont wear glasses do you?

 

[nino_savatte]

1 Have i ever said that Mr Goebbels?

2 Your a stuck up twat,who has no idea what your talking about most of the time.

3 You dont wear glasses do you?

1. "Goebbels"? Fuck, you don't even understand your history.
2. I'd rather be stuck up than an uneducated fool.
3. Pol Pot executed people who wore glasses in the mistaken belief that they were more 'intellectual'. I take it you suffer from the same delusion?

 

[tbaldwin]

1 Isnt it something about the past?
2 No kidding?
3 Deluded? Me....Maybe?

 

[nino_savatte]

1 Isnt it something about the past?
2 No kidding?
3 Deluded? Me....Maybe?

Goebbels was the Nazi Information (propaganda) Minister, I fail to see either a link or any real evidence to suggest that I am anything like him; whereas you are quite clearly very much like Pol Pot in your views on education and those who have an education. You also claim to be an authoritarian...or maybe that was bullshit too - non?

 

[tbaldwin]

1 Crikey you certainly know your history....

Maybe i meant that you twisted peoples words....You know stuff like claiming people who argue against educational privellege are anti education..

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - The political compass is crap.

I am really, fantastically sick of people posting it up at every fucking opportunity. It's so biased towards the libertarian left, it's not even funny, and the entire notion of marking people's politics along a set of axes relative to an undefined "centre" is ludicrous.

And also, the range of questions it asks is stupidly limited. If it asked 2-300 questions it might be a bit more credible.

 

[nino_savatte]

1 Crikey you certainly know your history....

Maybe i meant that you twisted peoples words....You know stuff like claiming people who argue against educational privellege are anti education..

It's the way you tend to use words like "liberal left" and the way you apply words like "clever" as a pejorative... and now, "you're stuck up", that betrays you.

I didn't "twist" your words at all and you would do well to seek out a remedial reading course. Your ability to read and to comprehend are signally lacking in your case.

Just to finish, according to you, everyone who goes to univeristy is "privileged" but then you're the one who accused VP of being in cahoots with Widdecombe while he was working at the Home Office. If that isn't lazy thinking or blatant trolling, I don't know what is.