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Yep, fuck Labour. You know where you are with the Tories. They don't even pretend to give a shit about the poor and the sick and the disadvantaged. Less chance of disappointment.
 
redsquirrel said:
You can be interested in the game that is parliamentary politics while considering all the players scum.
Click to expand...

It's a very all or nothing position. But I suppose I don't consider the whole Labour Party 'scum' though on account of the war I'm not going to argue the toss with you for doing so.
 
brogdale said:
That's a really dumb question Moose.
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Not really. I don't quite believe you all. I think there are very few of you who don't really want a Labour victory. If nothing else their austerity would probably be weaker, easier to defeat.
 
Mr Moose said:
It's a very all or nothing position. But I suppose I don't consider the whole Labour Party 'scum' though on account of the war I'm not going to argue the toss with you for doing so.
Click to expand...
Well I probably shouldn't have all the players, there will be groups and individuals that I do respect who are going to take part in electoral politics. Nor do I think that using electoral politics is always a poor tactic. While the rules of the game are clearly stacked in the favour of capital there have been in the past, and will be in the future, times when labour can force a victory. But a victory for Labour is in no way a victory for labour.
 
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Spanky Longhorn said:
You want to see a Tory victory then? How strange
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The wish list in the post he was agreeing with doesn't necessitate a Tory victory in Westminster; Labour could win without any Scottish seats. Blair had big enough majorities not to need 45 Scottish Labour MPs. And that's without considering where the Lib Dem seats in the rest of the UK would go.

Furthermore, even if Labour does win, they'll still be Thatcherite fucks.

This "if you don't support one that means you support another" attitude is very primary school playground. The political parties are gangsters bickering over who gets to extort protection from us. They're *all* cunts.

Our best course of action is not to pin our hopes on which of the families puts on the nicest fake smile, but on supporting initiatives in our communities which can make a practical difference, and in the process foster community self empowerment.
 
Mr Moose said:
Not really. I don't quite believe you all. I think there are very few of you who don't really want a Labour victory. If nothing else their austerity would probably be weaker, easier to defeat.
Click to expand...
You believe who you chose, but assuming that you've rumbled all who post in this thread have a faith in parliamentary democracy and support one particular party of capital within that system of political 'democracy' appears quite absurd.

On that basis should I be grassing up to the 'Chindits' all those that post in the Islamic State thread?
:facepalm:
 
miktheword said:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/31/lib-dems-sink-labour-take-lead-tories-opinium-poll

LDS at 5%
Click to expand...

Worth showing that graphic (again)..

579b8258-5574-4f24-a84d-ff11c950bfe0_zps13d8088b.png


...to show the flat-lining tory 'core' well below where they could achieve a majority.
 
YouGov have topline figures of:-

CON 32%, LAB 35%, LDEM 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 6%.

It’s the first Labour lead YouGov have shown for a week. It’s probably just normal sample variation, but is a reminder that despite a week of polls that had more Conservative leads than Labour ones, the polls are still really neck-and-neck. Tabs here.
Click to expand...
 
brogdale said:
You believe who you chose, but assuming that you've rumbled all who post in this thread have a faith in parliamentary democracy and support one particular party of capital within that system of political 'democracy' appears quite absurd.

On that basis should I be grassing up to the 'Chindits' all those that post in the Islamic State thread?
:facepalm:
Click to expand...

It's ridiculous to conflate wanting a Labour victory with blinkered faith in Parliamentary Democracy.

Heaven knows wtf you are going on about in your last para. I expect you could express it better if you avoided trying to be a clever clogs.
 
killer b said:
So where does competence come in? Labour are clearly pursuing an electoral strategy that doesn't include going through some mildly leftish sounding motions. I'd guess the main reason for this is because they hope to woo swing tory/labour voters - the people who essentially decide elections, and who are scared off by mildly leftish motions.

If you're wanting a party with socialist or social democrat policies, then the Labour Party are awful. But they aren't incompetent - they're just not a socialist or social democrat party.
Click to expand...

The examples I gave (fuck ups in hospitals, schools and prisons this week) are cases where they'd be able to attack the managerial ability of the government, not about taking a leftish position - it's 'safe' for politicians to attack the competence of the government because it doesn't require ideology or convictions, and for a lot of the population having a competent 'safe pair of hands' is more important than political differences (which are not that discernible). Shouting 'fiasco' is an effective strategy in today's politics, so it seems weird they aren't ripping into the coalition about it.

Of course the root causes of most of the fuck-ups are all the cuts which are ideological, and which labour are signed up to, but it doesn't require acknowledging that to go on the offensive.
 
Mr Moose said:
It's ridiculous to conflate wanting a Labour victory with blinkered faith in Parliamentary Democracy.

Heaven knows wtf you are going on about in your last para. I expect you could express it better if you avoided trying to be a clever clogs.
Click to expand...

I didn't conflate the two but, that said, to desire the victory of a parliamentary political party would suggest some degree of implicit faith in parliamentary, representative democracy.

Now, getting back to what you said..
Mr Moose said:
I don't quite believe you all. I think there are very few of you who don't really want a Labour victory. If nothing else their austerity would probably be weaker, easier to defeat
Click to expand...
You still stand by that, do you? That simply by taking an interest in psephology and posting in this thread somehow equates with a desire for an electoral victory for the parliamentary Labour party in the May GE?

And this thing about their austerity being "weaker" and "easier to defeat"; what's that all about?

The reference to the 'chindits' was as an analogy to your proposition of belief; I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
 
killer b said:
So where does competence come in? Labour are clearly pursuing an electoral strategy that doesn't include going through some mildly leftish sounding motions. I'd guess the main reason for this is because they hope to woo swing tory/labour voters - the people who essentially decide elections, and who are scared off by mildly leftish motions.

If you're wanting a party with socialist or social democrat policies, then the Labour Party are awful. But they aren't incompetent - they're just not a socialist or social democrat party.
Click to expand...

Dogsauce said:
The examples I gave (fuck ups in hospitals, schools and prisons this week) are cases where they'd be able to attack the managerial ability of the government, not about taking a leftish position - it's 'safe' for politicians to attack the competence of the government because it doesn't require ideology or convictions, and for a lot of the population having a competent 'safe pair of hands' is more important than political differences (which are not that discernible). Shouting 'fiasco' is an effective strategy in today's politics, so it seems weird they aren't ripping into the coalition about it.

Of course the root causes of most of the fuck-ups are all the cuts which are ideological, and which labour are signed up to, but it doesn't require acknowledging that to go on the offensive.
Click to expand...

Lots of agreement with both of these posts -- and hoping they can provoke some good discussion.. maybe even possibly a bit from myself. Later.
 
William of Walworth said:
Lots of agreement with both of these posts -- and hoping they can provoke some good discussion.. maybe even possibly a bit from myself. Later.
Click to expand...
TBH, what's the point, both main party's are joined at the hip, come May I'm voting for whatever bugger impresses me, and if they are the loony party, UKIP, independent etc, anybody,but Cameron's or millipedes lot.
FFS, we need some kind of PR to even get a sniff of democratic representation in this place.
 
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