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Political polling

Hypothetical scenario - Lib Dem and Green vote collapses as voters rally to Corbyn to prevent a Tory landslide. There is an unprecedented high turnout due to Corbyn supporters, and the polls turn out to have badly underestimated Labour support. As Labour begin to look more credible, they start winning over Scottish voters again. Some Tories get caught up in the changing winds and decide to back Labour, or some scandal hits May. Corbyn wins a majority with 43.3% of the vote share, narrowly beating Blair's record in 1997, to the Tories 41%.

One can but dream.
 
In Scotland, it's not really about Labour looking more credible; it's about Scottish Labour looking more credible. Which is a bit of a different thing.

I'm not sure Jeremy Corbyn being Labour leader makes any difference there at all.
 
In Scotland, it's not really about Labour looking more credible; it's about Scottish Labour looking more credible. Which is a bit of a different thing.

I'm not sure Jeremy Corbyn being Labour leader makes any difference there at all.
on the lab/snp bitterness front I do get the impression from all the down south that labour are furious up their- not with the voters but with the snp. 'you stole OUR proles' or somesuch. Either way its not a good look for them is it. Not even asking themselves why they lost. Lot of that about in politics of late
 
No idea how reliable or not this Evolve Politics site is, but there appears to have been an Ipsos Mori poll giving Labour 39% in England. Possible? I'm very sceptical, and I suspect there's inherent issues with that poll, plus surely it's an outlier?? :confused:

brogdale redsquirrel
It seems to be unweighted cross breaks from this
If it is then they have a PDF with charts on the weighted data.
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/2017-05/pm-may-2017-charts.pdf

I would really not hang my hat on the weighting models as there may be a bit of a pick up in more people who did not vote last election turning out. No sign of that in the by elections or locals but its still a real possibility.
 
It seems to be unweighted cross breaks from this
If it is then they have a PDF with charts on the weighted data.
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/2017-05/pm-may-2017-charts.pdf

I would really not hang my hat on the weighting models as there may be a bit of a pick up in more people who did not vote last election turning out. No sign of that in the by elections or locals but its still a real possibility.
Tend to agree with that - and wouldn't be happy venturing a guess as to where these voters may turn out either
 
New poll out:



Looks like most of the fieldwork done before Tory manifesto launch
 
New poll out:



Looks like most of the fieldwork done before Tory manifesto launch


The UKIP share of the vote in a lot of these polls does really give me a great deal of doubt about how accurate they are - almost all of them have them between 4% and 7%, despite the Varian nature of their campaign to date.
 
Will be interesting to keep an eye on the older cohorts in post tory manifesto polling.
Not only them but the next gen down - them that'll be seeing their bricks and mortar inheritance disappearing should their parents need care
 
The UKIP share of the vote in a lot of these polls does really give me a great deal of doubt about how accurate they are - almost all of them have them between 4% and 7%, despite the Varian nature of their campaign to date.
I think a lot of polling assumptions are there to be proved wrong - UKIP have been around long enough for people to have voted for them a few times in a row but not long enough for them to be out of passing fad territory. Their support could be overstated in other words
 


Before manifesto launch


What does it say? I'm obsessing about poll results lately but I am in China so twitter is blocked and my vpn is broken, if you (or anyone else) can type out the contents in text I'd be very appreciative. All I can see is a "Loading tweet..." message.
 
What does it say? I'm obsessing about poll results lately but I am in China so twitter is blocked and my vpn is broken, if you (or anyone else) can type out the contents in text I'd be very appreciative. All I can see is a "Loading tweet..." message.
Westminster voting intention:

CON: 46% (-1)
LAB: 33% (+1)
LDEM: 8% (-)
UKIP: 5% (-)
GRN: 2% (-)

(via @OpiniumResearch / 16 - 17 May)
 
The polls after this weekend will be interesting, when the dementia tax stuff starts filtering through.

From a small local snapshot, Labour people out door knocking here in Stoke today found every single one on their list who were down during the by-election or previous GE as don't knows, abstains, don't votes, maybes, and even against Labour are saying they're voting Labour, and it's all down to the dementia tax.

I hasten to add, it was a very small snapshot from one team out this morning. But for even the "I am against Labour" people saying it...

I still don't dare to dream.

But what with all the talk about Corbyn's vote share being bigger than both Brown's and Miliband's according to recent polls, and with him only being 2-3 points off Blair... this latest upsetting of the May apple cart could well push him to that magical 36% mark.

Time for a coup, methinks.

The Tories have gone earlier than I expected on the IRA stuff. I wonder what they're keeping back for election week? There can't be anything that's been held back against him during two hotly contested and poisonous leadership elections, so I do wonder what the final week will look like from the Tories and the Labour right. Can't let Corbs get a bigger vote share than Saint Blair.
 
The polls after this weekend will be interesting, when the dementia tax stuff starts filtering through.

From a small local snapshot, Labour people out door knocking here in Stoke today found every single one on their list who were down during the by-election or previous GE as don't knows, abstains, don't votes, maybes, and even against Labour are saying they're voting Labour, and it's all down to the dementia tax.

I hasten to add, it was a very small snapshot from one team out this morning. But for even the "I am against Labour" people saying it...

I still don't dare to dream.

But what with all the talk about Corbyn's vote share being bigger than both Brown's and Miliband's according to recent polls, and with him only being 2-3 points off Blair... this latest upsetting of the May apple cart could well push him to that magical 36% mark.

Time for a coup, methinks.

Dare to dream!

It can happen.

And sometimes a belief that it can happen can be self fulfilling. The Blair era of the Labour Party was largely defined by the conviction that it can't happen, which itself became self fulfilling.
 
One small thing to add about today's door knocking: one person specifically said he didn't like Corbyn because of the IRA stuff, but the dementia tax was more important and he'd be voting Labour.

When it comes down to it, when there's an actual election on, with actual policies and real consequences, it focuses voters' minds and the wonks and journos and the like don't often catch on to that. I'm sure the IRA stuff and other negative Corbyn campaigning will still have an effect for some, and it's difficult to undo two years of drip-fed insecurity and animosity, but thanks to firstly the Labour Manifesto leak and now this dementia tax, policy is actually important (as it always is when it comes down to it) and hopefully it will mitigate the very worst possible outcomes.
 
If labour start regularly polling over 35% - i wonder if the blairites will start mouthing off again? I saw one online comment saying "Corbyn getting as much as 35% would be a disaster for the labour party - as he would still be in charge". This is their mentality.
 
If labour start regularly polling over 35% - i wonder if the blairites will start mouthing off again? I saw one online comment saying "Corbyn getting as much as 35% would be a disaster for the labour party - as he would still be in charge". This is their mentality.

Exactly. They resigned themselves to a loss a long time ago, and decided it would be best if the loss was as great as possible, to show once and for all that the party shouldn't turn left and centrism is our only saviour. The final nail in the coffin of a left wing Labour Party.

That Labour are inching towards Blair's vote share despite all the negative shit that has been piled on Corbyn and the left in general, that's got to really hurt.

I predict a lot more acrimony and many more manoeuverings, but should the actual vote have Labour at or around that Blair share it gives the left of the party a damn good foundation to argue from: if the party had been united and everyone been behind the leader and the platform, imagine the vote share we could have got then?

The worst possible outcome for the right of the party is that "Corbyn is unelectable" is proven wrong (and even without Labour winning, getting Blair's vote share show's he's as electable as Blair).
 
If labour start regularly polling over 35% - i wonder if the blairites will start mouthing off again? I saw one online comment saying "Corbyn getting as much as 35% would be a disaster for the labour party - as he would still be in charge". This is their mentality.

I suppose it all depends on which Blairites you mean. The PLP will almost certainly continue to keep quiet during the campaign because its a policy that they can't really lose with - they aren't going to be blamed for the defeat, most of them are in safe(ish) seats, and - if the miracle happens and Corbyn wins - they would be in an really strong position to him given that his government would stay or go on their whim. The only bad option for them is a narrow / very narrow Tory victory, which would strengthen him immeasurably whilst demonstrating their complete uselessness (which TBH probably means that is whats going to happen).

Those who aren't MPs can reliably be expected to stick their oars in, though of course given the previous success of such measures it is probably something that would help Corbyn more than harm him.
 
Exactly. They resigned themselves to a loss a long time ago, and decided it would be best if the loss was as great as possible, to show once and for all that the party shouldn't turn left and centrism is our only saviour. The final nail in the coffin of a left wing Labour Party.

That Labour are inching towards Blair's vote share despite all the negative shit that has been piled on Corbyn and the left in general, that's got to really hurt.

I predict a lot more acrimony and many more manoeuverings, but should the actual vote have Labour at or around that Blair share it gives the left of the party a damn good foundation to argue from: if the party had been united and everyone been behind the leader and the platform, imagine the vote share we could have got then?

The worst possible outcome for the right of the party is that "Corbyn is unelectable" is proven wrong (and even without Labour winning, getting Blair's vote share show's he's as electable as Blair).

Maybe not, they fear the membership turning on them. They would still have to win a leadership election, and a miraculous recovery in the polls by Labour followed by Blairite sabotage would be way too obvious and they would probably get de-selected.

More likely there will be enough Damascian conversions to the Corbyn gravy train to make any Blairite sabotage isolated, increasing the risk to the individuals involved. By nature, they are pragmatists and careerists who have neither the courage nor conviction to rebel if the risk is high.
 
What is quite intriguing is the % that a Corbyn-led LP can achieve despite the apparent 'lending' of a considerable chunk of their 'core' vote to May because Brexit...
 
It would be a symbolic threshold, but he's not really as electable as Blair unless Labour wins the election.

I knew someone would say that :D

Yes, I take that on board absolutely.

My counter-argument would be that the context is wildly different now, and we can't have a full picture of what's going on with Labour without looking at what's going on elsewhere with the Tory vote. Their support is huge, and is benefiting from the collapse of UKIP. UKIP weren't a thing back in 97, and the political landscape looked a lot different to how it looks today.

UKIP voters aren't a single breed, but rather a collection of interests, some of whom (the largest constituency I think) will have been Tories in the past, some Labour, some non-voters, some floating voters, a handful from BNP and elsewhere. The move of that vote to the Tories, in part thanks to Brexit, and in part thanks to the image of the Labour party, plays a huge part in whether any Labour leader is 'electable' or not.

So it depends on what terms we're judging it. If it's in terms of straight like-for-like vote share then yes, he's electable because he's very nearly at the threshold Blair reached when he stormed to victory. That's a winning vote share in terms of support needed to win in a specific circumstance. But the circumstances are different at the moment, so the bar is moved - which isn't necessarily the fault of the Labour leader or the Labour platform but rather of wider political realities and the context of the shifting political landscape.

So, certainly it's a truism that if you don't get elected you're not electable in that instance, but that doesn't get to the nitty gritty of what's going on under the hood.
 
Is there any individual constituency polling? I haven't looked through the thread (sorry!)

Just curious if we'll see any high profile cunts disappear. Would like to see Clegg lose his seat :)
 
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