Yes exactly!!
Pandemic personal consequences
- Thread starter wayward bob
- Start date
maomao
普費斯
My son has physio at one of these. It's wonderful; unlike the nightmare that is our GP service. I spent two and a half hours on the phone to get an appointment on Tuesday.
Of course, all those things are needed but my point is there are limits to teaching self-care. Self-care is not a thing, it's a way of relating to yourself, and many people can't do that, not because they don't have the information or the skills. I'd talk about powerless and vulnerable people expect we all know that HCPs aren't the best at looking after themselves.
I don’t have time to answer now, but the problems in the NHS go way beyond just money as LynnDoyleCooper says and he makes some brilliant points.
Hospitals have an additional identity crisis that goes beyond the difficulties with the health system, which derives from their social history. I am doing this from memory, so I may have my timeline a bit off. But as I recall it, their late 17th and early 18th century origins were in as warehousing the unproductive. This included all types of unproductive, including the ill but also those with all kinds of social problems, from madness to fecklessness (in the way that it was seen at the time). The architectural design reflected this — big wards where all kept inside could be viewed at all times by those in charge.
As society moved towards managing populations through specialism and control through internalised normative behaviours rather than sovereign oppression, power needed to start actually dealing with the health of its population rather than ignoring it. At first, we had the dehospitalisation movement (something around the late 18th century, if memory serves) — an aim to completely abolish hospitals. This would be via placing health provision within the community itself, and we saw the birth of the GP (and, gradually, the social status and power accompanying this position).
The problem was that as medical knowledge developed, GPs needed training. In addition, new techniques were best developed by mass review of cases, studying problems systematically. Hospitals were reborn as training centres and centres of study, and from this they developed a role as specialist providers of care. The difference was that they now were focused on getting the sick back into their community rather than keeping them warehoused. And GPs gained a new role as gatekeepers to these centres.
When we look at a hospital today, we can see all this history contained in one place. A lot of the architecture is still based on the pre-17th century ideas. There is a split between ideals of dehospitalisation (small, local clinics) and ideals of centralisation (big specialist units). Some of the processes still seem to be aimed at warehousing the unproductive whilst other processes are about getting people done and out as soon as possible. The broad aim is to keep people out of hospital — GPs have power in their community and a gatekeeper relationship with the hospitals. At the same time, most care worthy of the name takes place in the hospital, not at GPs. But people cannot directly access this care, so they are left with a Byzantine tangle of admin despair to get what they need.
I’m not offering a solution or a particular criticism in this post, just a perspective. If you don’t understand how hospital care is embedded into social history, it’s hard to articulate some of the problems and their origins.
As society moved towards managing populations through specialism and control through internalised normative behaviours rather than sovereign oppression, power needed to start actually dealing with the health of its population rather than ignoring it. At first, we had the dehospitalisation movement (something around the late 18th century, if memory serves) — an aim to completely abolish hospitals. This would be via placing health provision within the community itself, and we saw the birth of the GP (and, gradually, the social status and power accompanying this position).
The problem was that as medical knowledge developed, GPs needed training. In addition, new techniques were best developed by mass review of cases, studying problems systematically. Hospitals were reborn as training centres and centres of study, and from this they developed a role as specialist providers of care. The difference was that they now were focused on getting the sick back into their community rather than keeping them warehoused. And GPs gained a new role as gatekeepers to these centres.
When we look at a hospital today, we can see all this history contained in one place. A lot of the architecture is still based on the pre-17th century ideas. There is a split between ideals of dehospitalisation (small, local clinics) and ideals of centralisation (big specialist units). Some of the processes still seem to be aimed at warehousing the unproductive whilst other processes are about getting people done and out as soon as possible. The broad aim is to keep people out of hospital — GPs have power in their community and a gatekeeper relationship with the hospitals. At the same time, most care worthy of the name takes place in the hospital, not at GPs. But people cannot directly access this care, so they are left with a Byzantine tangle of admin despair to get what they need.
I’m not offering a solution or a particular criticism in this post, just a perspective. If you don’t understand how hospital care is embedded into social history, it’s hard to articulate some of the problems and their origins.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that was some magic sticking plaster. I guess what we see as the problem/s is partly due to where we work in the NHS and our training, but also our personality and experiences (know you know this, just thinking out loud...).
I didn't think you were doing that but I'm trying to say that 'self-care' is political and relational. Of course, I don't disagree with the idea that people being able to do more to look after themselves isn't a good thing, just that it's very complex and not just about information. As for where we work, I think all services have to manage their response to people's needs that might be expressed as coming under their specific remit but are actually about something else, it takes up a huge amount of time that takes us away from our specialisms, what we trained in and the work we want to be doing.
andysays
Love and solidarity
What I got from LDC's original post was that (many) problems faced within the Health Service aren't just problems with the Health Service, they're deep-rooted societal problems which need societal change, including in working patterns, education and a whole load of other stuff.
The pandemic has perhaps made some of these issues even more obvious, but it certainly hasn't created them.
Yeah fuck the self care (as it were), it's a red herring really. I think it just pushed Red Cat buttons.
You noticed
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
You noticed
A close friend is a clinical psychologist and every time someone mentions 'mindfulness' they go red and gurgle obscenities.
It's all the horror of medicine under 21st century capitalism isn't it?
Generations of abuse, poverty, horrendous lives, drug use, etc etc. and it's; "Oh have you downloaded a mindfullness app or had a self care day? Maybe you could make a TikTok about how much they helped."
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A 21 year-old biomedical student on the kabbess’ course is having difficulty with the end of her degree because she is of Pakistani origin and her parents have gone back to Pakistan to look after her ill grandmother but got COVID and are now sick themselves. She is left to take care of her young siblings, work a full time low-wage job and finish her difficult degree in the time left over. Meanwhile, although she has been granted an extension, her library card has run out (final year), meaning when she traveled for 90 minutes to the university to use the library for a bit of peace and quiet, she was turned away. She’s also having difficulty getting extensions to the computer software she needs to finish the course.
She spoke to the student welfare officer about all these issues. What was the response? “I think you should probably have some therapy.”
Honestly, I’d despair if there were any point in doing so.
She spoke to the student welfare officer about all these issues. What was the response? “I think you should probably have some therapy.”
Honestly, I’d despair if there were any point in doing so.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
What's frustrating about the creaking state of the NHS, is that all this was predicted, regardless of the pandemic, and solutions somewhat along the lines of LynnDoyleCooper 's arguments proposed back in 2010 with the Marmot report, which makes it very clear that creating a healthier society is not just the job of the NHS, and failure to do so will lead to impossible demands on hospitals. But of course, Tories, austerity, pointless NHS reorganisations, decimating of local government and here we are.
Excuse the minor moan given all the above, just noting for the sake of it.
Got a text at 1700 yesterday from NHS to say sorry, they'd had to cancel my second jab apt on 26th July.
I rebooked online within the hour, no places on 26th so chose 27th. Got confirmed text and email.
Today, got a text saying my appointment was still on the 26th but not showing on the system.
Phoned 119 to find out what's going on. They said it was still showing as the 27th.
I asked if possible to alert any staff there, I'm blind and may need a guide into the queueing area. (Venue's a football stadium.)
Last time an ambulance medic there doing testing, happened to be passing and a bloke in the queue helped but I don't like relying on there necessarily being anyone helpful around. It's a big carpark...
119 said they could make a note but had to cancel this appointment and rebook.
Which they did for 26th July, which happens to be about 30 minutes before my original appointment time...
pfft.
This stuff is / was making me a bit nervous about turning up and being told you're not on the list, go away. I will argue, if that happens.
Got a text at 1700 yesterday from NHS to say sorry, they'd had to cancel my second jab apt on 26th July.
I rebooked online within the hour, no places on 26th so chose 27th. Got confirmed text and email.
Today, got a text saying my appointment was still on the 26th but not showing on the system.
Phoned 119 to find out what's going on. They said it was still showing as the 27th.
I asked if possible to alert any staff there, I'm blind and may need a guide into the queueing area. (Venue's a football stadium.)
Last time an ambulance medic there doing testing, happened to be passing and a bloke in the queue helped but I don't like relying on there necessarily being anyone helpful around. It's a big carpark...
119 said they could make a note but had to cancel this appointment and rebook.
Which they did for 26th July, which happens to be about 30 minutes before my original appointment time...
pfft.
This stuff is / was making me a bit nervous about turning up and being told you're not on the list, go away. I will argue, if that happens.
After diligently following the vast majority of the rules the NHS app tells me I need to self isolate for 6 days due to a close contact. This must have happened at the gym. I will of course but it is still annoying just as the weather is getting nice. Better get weeding the garden!
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
Other than running out of milk yesterday I have everything I need. I had a supermarket delivery today to stock up. It's mildly galling when I read Gove returns from Portugal and doesn't need to self isolate despite the close contact as he got onto a daily testing trial.
Have you got any lateral flow tests? If not grab some and do a test a couple of days before and another on the day you're due to see her. Honestly, I'd go sooner rather than later as things are likely to get worse.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I've not seen my mum since all this started. We're not especially close but I am now feeling very guilty about it. I was initially planning to go down in the last couple of weeks, as I've risked a couple of long distance train trips for fun last month, but the new variant has spooked me a bit. Really don't want to fall at the final hurdle, eg get covid just before I am fully vaccinated - and my second jab is this week, and I'm just a few miles from an area that's very suddenly got a lot of cases, surge testing etc. And she is refusing to have the vaccine which doesn't make the decision easy either.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It's minor I know, but I got a ping through the NHS app on my phone saying "YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO A COVID YOU MUST SELF-ISOLATE" last night which has now ruined my weekend. I'm one of the few people who actually still run the fucking app tbh and look at what happens.
It only said five days, which means that I apparently was "in contact" with somebody on Monday, when I sat outside a pub in the open air for an hour or two and patently didn't catch the covid. OTOH I've been saying people should generally self-isolate on exposure warnings so I suppose I should do it myself, even if legally I don't need to (it's just "guidance").
I ordered groceries* on Deliveroo for the first time ever today and it made me feel (a) evil and (b) completely ripped off. Absolutely turning the bluetooth off next time I go out.
* booze and baccy
It only said five days, which means that I apparently was "in contact" with somebody on Monday, when I sat outside a pub in the open air for an hour or two and patently didn't catch the covid. OTOH I've been saying people should generally self-isolate on exposure warnings so I suppose I should do it myself, even if legally I don't need to (it's just "guidance").
I ordered groceries* on Deliveroo for the first time ever today and it made me feel (a) evil and (b) completely ripped off. Absolutely turning the bluetooth off next time I go out.
* booze and baccy
Flavour
hang the bankers
I think I am a bit depressed by the amount of people I know in Italy who say they won't get the vaccine. I cannot respect these people or view them the same way as before. It's very sad. The one chance for people to actually do something to contribute to improving the world (by getting vaccinated) and so many want to refuse this because... well, never for very good reasons. The knowledge that my respect for a large proportion of everyone I know has been permanently and seriously damaged is hard to take.
Makes me want to sort of re-direct my social life towards people who have been or want to be vaccinated but I don't know how to do that given that socializing is still not the same as it was 18 months ago. I can't just start texting people saying "hey you're one of the people I know who isn't a selfish cunt I would like to spend more time with you outdoors" though, in some fashion, I am going to have to do that in order to ensure a happy social life when we are fully post-pandemic.
Makes me want to sort of re-direct my social life towards people who have been or want to be vaccinated but I don't know how to do that given that socializing is still not the same as it was 18 months ago. I can't just start texting people saying "hey you're one of the people I know who isn't a selfish cunt I would like to spend more time with you outdoors" though, in some fashion, I am going to have to do that in order to ensure a happy social life when we are fully post-pandemic.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Mrs Q and I have been to see my parents today, the first time we have seen them in the flesh in almost 12 months. Saw my brother there too, He told me that my nephew and his girlfriend have been contacted their landlord who tells him that the pandemic has caused him to sell up and offered them first refusal at buying their house since apparently the Govt hasn't been kind to landlords during the pandemic. My nephew and his girlfriend weren't interested, they are planning to buy anyway and reckon they can get something better for their money. This will just bring their plans forward some.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I have a fair few acquaintances (or as I call them now, cunts) who are unvaccinated anti mask types. One actual friend who hasn't had it - but he's nervous rather than anti, waiting to see if we all drop dead. Given the way rates are surging here I think he needs to get a move on really.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Just seen a relative's picture, lockdown hasn't been kind to them and they were already a big fella (and a big family).
I'm glad I've gone from pushing 90kg to hovering about 85-6 this last couple months.
I'm glad I've gone from pushing 90kg to hovering about 85-6 this last couple months.
You don't talk about it? All my friends mention it and want to compare notes on when they got it done, side effects or the lack of them etc etc. (Everyone I've spoken to has got it as soon as possible which I'm not at all surprised about.)
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