Pandemic personal consequences

[MickiQ]

I've liked Mation posts in this thread so that'll get you a bit closer. However checking my own profile I can see that this will be my 4,444th post in the approx 40 months I have been a member of U75, I know that the last 15 of those have been during the Great Contagion but I can't help thinking I need to get more of a life as soon as possible when this is over.

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

I hear you, littleseb and zora . I often worry that I'm making a terrible mistake by living overseas and away from my lovely dad during this. There aren't even any flights between here and the UK any more.

 

[klang]

I hear you, littleseb and zora . I often worry that I'm making a terrible mistake by living overseas and away from my lovely dad during this. There aren't even any flights between here and the UK any more.

tbh if I'd even start to assess my important life choices I'd go mad. The bottom line is that I've decided to settle and start a family over here. So here we are.
We had such a good plan worked out for his first year, had saved a bit of money to be able to afford to spend equal amount of time over here and over there.
Covid fucked it all. It's been a very lonely (but also beautiful and bonding) time for us. To think that my family missed all the key stages from him turning over to him starting to crawl to standing to eating to walking makes me very sad. Esp today it's doing me in a bit.

 

[klang]

Friend of mine is in a similar position. the big diff is that she is in a very well paid wfh job. For her it isn't a problem to go home to her home country, quarantine, wfh, and spend a few weeks / months with her family, together with her son.
For us it's impossible.

 

[zora]

Ah, it truly sucks. Not at all what you'd wanted it to be (apart from the beautiful bonding bits ❤) especially having had a plan to spend time here and there. Not surprised there are times when when you are feeling utterly gutted.

 

[klang]

thank you Zora x

 

[zora]

I hear you, littleseb and zora . I often worry that I'm making a terrible mistake by living overseas and away from my lovely dad during this. There aren't even any flights between here and the UK any more.

Big squidges for you, too, Yu_Gi_Oh, so tough! Xxx

 

[klang]

There aren't even any flights between here and the UK any more.

not doing it is one thing, not being able to do it bc covid is quite another. Take care xx

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

Thanks, you guys. xxx In almost every way, I'm living a wonderful life. It's just when I think too hard about the being stuck bit I get vertigo. But I came back here knowing this might happen. I made my choice.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Last night I was dreaming that I was home in mainland Europe and my family met my son for the very first time. Today has been a difficult day for me. It's tough.

No descendent here, but missing my family (and I can only handle them for about a week at a time)

 

[Artaxerxes]

I've liked Mation posts in this thread so that'll get you a bit closer. However checking my own profile I can see that this will be my 4,444th post in the approx 40 months I have been a member of U75, I know that the last 15 of those have been during the Great Contagion but I can't help thinking I need to get more of a life as soon as possible when this is over.

One of my aims at the start of 2020 was to spend more time offline and oh, oh shit.

 

[izz]

I've liked Mation posts in this thread so that'll get you a bit closer. However checking my own profile I can see that this will be my 4,444th post in the approx 40 months I have been a member of U75, I know that the last 15 of those have been during the Great Contagion but I can't help thinking I need to get more of a life as soon as possible when this is over.

You're just bedding in

 

[LDC]

Urgh I know it’s pointless to sympathise cos it’s like every shift, but sorry that sounds grim.

Much of the NHS, especially primary & acute, is not fit for purpose any longer (but also mental health services, and actually also many elective surgical specialties with their years long waiting lists). We’re just kind of pretending it is. I don’t know what will happen. It’s terrifying and people seem oblivious.

Sorry missed this until just now, but thanks Edie TBH my work is OK mostly, only deal with one patient at a time so a list of 10 or 10,000 in some ways doesn't make a huge difference, apart from the fact that they're sometimes pissed off or have given up already and gone to ED.

I agree though, the system as it is isn't fit for purpose. The problem is it feel impossible to fix without a complete restructuring of society, change in education, and how people live and work etc. I get why but it frustrates me when people go on about the money/funding issues in the NHS as if it's the only problem. Like for sure it's a problem, but the NHS at it is now could probably consume as much money as it gets, and I doubt the outcomes for people would improve that much.

 

[Winot]

I agree though, the system as it is isn't fit for purpose. The problem is it feel impossible to fix without a complete restructuring of society, change in education, and how people live and work etc. I get why but it frustrates me when people go on about the money/funding issues in the NHS as if it's the only problem. Like for sure it's a problem, but the NHS at it is now could probably consume as much money as it gets, and I doubt the outcomes for people would improve that much.

I’d be interested to hear more about what you think needs to change (perhaps in a separate thread). The bit in bold is rather depressing.

 

[kabbes]

I don’t agree that outcomes wouldn’t improve in a better funded service. A lot of stuff is missed because staff simply don’t have the time to properly talk to the patients, which is where the crucial details will be. A lot of stuff is picked up too late because appointments are repeatedly cancelled. The kabbess has been waiting about two years for a follow-up appointment about a condition she has— who knows how it has developed in that time? Some of it was COVID delays but she’d already been put off repeatedly before that had started.

You could throw money at equipment and medicine and I have no idea if that would help or not. But if you doubled staff numbers and gave them working space, that would certainly help a lot.

 

[kabbes]

The other thing is I am always staggered at how inefficient the systems are. Wards need a dedicated workflow manager and public interface. I don’t know how it’s done right now, but it comes across as a chaotic mess of individuals managing individual cases. Nobody ever seems to know anything except the case they personally deal with and there is nobody to talk to. I see the same things being done three times when they could be done once. I can’t tell you how much NHS time we’ve wasted by being called in, only to find nobody is expecting us and having hours of people’s’ time (not to mention our own) being passed from pillar to post and then having to go home again to come back a different day. And don’t get me started on the archaic approach to appointment booking.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

The other thing is I am always staggered at how inefficient the systems are. Wards need a dedicated workflow manager and public interface. I don’t know how it’s done right now, but it comes across as a chaotic mess of individuals managing individual cases. Nobody ever seems to know anything except the case they personally deal with and there is nobody to talk to. I see the same things being done three times when they could be done once. I can’t tell you how much NHS time we’ve wasted by being called in, only to find nobody is expecting us and having hours of people’s’ time (not to mention our own) being passed from pillar to post and then having to go home again to come back a different day. And don’t get me started on the archaic approach to appointment booking.

This came through so loud and clear with my Dad when he went to hospital and how badly information was passed on that was important. Goodness knows what it would be like for someone with serious dementia.

The final visit, where we couldn't visit of course, were basically told he was ok until we were told he was end of life. We had to phone up the hassle for information.

 

[maomao]

The other thing is I am always staggered at how inefficient the systems are. Wards need a dedicated workflow manager and public interface. I don’t know how it’s done right now, but it comes across as a chaotic mess of individuals managing individual cases. Nobody ever seems to know anything except the case they personally deal with and there is nobody to talk to. I see the same things being done three times when they could be done once. I can’t tell you how much NHS time we’ve wasted by being called in, only to find nobody is expecting us and having hours of people’s’ time (not to mention our own) being passed from pillar to post and then having to go home again to come back a different day. And don’t get me started on the archaic approach to appointment booking.

I've seen a lot of 2 hospitals this year and the difference between the properly funded and well-managed one (Great Ormond Street) and the bog standard one (Queens, Romford) is staggering. I've also stayed on a private ward (by chance, like getting bumped to first class on a flight) and while the main difference came down to maybe 3 or 4 extra staff, the difference in level of care was huge.

Part of that difference is management, but most of it's money and resources.

 

[kabbes]

Part of that difference is management, but most of it's money and resources.

They aren’t unrelated, though. Good management — both people and systems — is an investment that has to be funded up front. It will save you money in the long run but I’m guessing that our underfunded system can’t spend what it needs to in order to sort it out.

 

[kabbes]

When I say management needs people, by the way, I’m not talking about highly paid idiots pontificating about systems. I mean things like well-resourced call centres. When I need basic information or need to pass on basic information, why do I have to phone a specific hospital department, whereupon I inevitably get passed from one person to another and often get dropped completely?

 

[LDC]

I don’t agree that outcomes wouldn’t improve in a better funded service. A lot of stuff is missed because staff simply don’t have the time to properly talk to the patients, which is where the crucial details will be. A lot of stuff is picked up too late because appointments are repeatedly cancelled. The kabbess has been waiting about two years for a follow-up appointment about a condition she has— who knows how it has developed in that time? Some of it was COVID delays but she’d already been put off repeatedly before that had started.

You could throw money at equipment and medicine and I have no idea if that would help or not. But if you doubled staff numbers and gave them working space, that would certainly help a lot.

I don't think outcomes wouldn't improve at all, funding and the management of that money is for sure a problem and could be massively improved. And yes, definitely staffing and retention is also a problem, but the NHS employs 1.2 million people. Do we need to employ 2.4 million people? Or maybe more...? What's making so many people so ill?

Just seen your other post as I write this, which made me want to say that a constant issue I find is the lack of joined up comms/record systems, and the creaking and completely shit IT systems.

But at root a huge part of the problem is one with people and how we live and work. There's huge amounts of generalized anxiety, loneliness, increasing levels of chronic disease, an aging population, a lack of education about self care and management of minor illnesses by patients themselves, all sorts of stuff like that that's just getting worse and some of it is really hard to manage with any amount of money.

 

[LDC]

I've seen a lot of 2 hospitals this year and the difference between the properly funded and well-managed one (Great Ormond Street) and the bog standard one (Queens, Romford) is staggering. I've also stayed on a private ward (by chance, like getting bumped to first class on a flight) and while the main difference came down to maybe 3 or 4 extra staff, the difference in level of care was huge.

Part of that difference is management, but most of it's money and resources.

Part of it is that is also there's a massive filter between people and accessing private heathcare, and that filter takes out all sorts of the problems the NHS faces in other areas leaving it much easier to deal with when you have experiences in the areas you mentioned. Also ward based hospital stuff is something that's probably the best run part of the NHS anyway, it's in acute and primary care where my experience is mostly, and that's the part of the system that's slowly collapsing I think.

 

[LDC]

Probably not the right thread, but post coffees what would I do to start fixing it....

Education: compulsory PE and self care classes in schools for all ages covering minor ailments and dealing with them, first aid, anatomy, healthy cooking, stress management, exercise skills, etc.

Primary care: recruit more GPs and other HCPs. Open up neighborhood health clinics that deal with small areas and are staffed by them and multi-disciplinary team of physical and mental health professionals. Be open 8am-8pm every day with appointments same day easy access through a mix of routes (remote, online, phone, face-face booking). Have them do regular health events/stalls at local community events and schools etc.

Hospitals: local hospitals where people access standard hospital based care. Link them to the above community clinics and people from both rotate between them a bit. Staff them well and have consistency of care where people work in specific wards long term. Link them to universities and other places where people train.

Other stuff: huge well staffed area hospitals in towns/cities where people get referred to for specialist level care. More green spaces with outdoor gyms and community led public health programs. Get rid of loads of NHS management. Centralize purchasing and procurement. National ambulance service but linked to and working out of local hospitals.

 

[Red Cat]

A lot of people aren't coping, and they're frightened. Even if they had the education to manage minor illness they want to see a doctor or nurse because they need the relationship and the experience of being looked after. To look after yourself you need the experience of being looked after first. Not keen on the notion of self care for that reason.

 

[maomao]

Part of it is that is also there's a massive filter between people and accessing private heathcare, and that filter takes out all sorts of the problems the NHS faces in other areas leaving it much easier to deal with when you have experiences in the areas you mentioned. Also ward based hospital stuff is something that's probably the best run part of the NHS anyway, it's in acute and primary care where my experience is mostly, and that's the part of the system that's slowly collapsing I think.

We had some very bad experiences on wards (and some good) at Queen's though they were mainly in January and February when the whole hospital was under the most stress.

I didn't think the private ward was that well managed to be honest. But there were more staff and the staff they had were more qualified. This also meant that staff had time to notice and help with long-running problems. We'd been asking for an ng tube for weeks because it's so hard to force a three year old to take medicine, his meds are crucial to his recovery, and at Queen's they felt that administering meds was a parent's job and we should just get on with it. On the private ward they actually saw the extent to which he was refusing and suggested an ng tube straight away. That was purely down to having an unhurried experienced nurse who felt able to suggest something rather than a HCA in a hurry who understandably didn't want to make more work.

I do think the whole thing needs restructuring. And some of the investment needed is in long-term commitments to staffing and training, experienced nurses won't appear overnight. But I also think money and resources can make a difference now.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The other thing is I am always staggered at how inefficient the systems are. Wards need a dedicated workflow manager and public interface. I don’t know how it’s done right now, but it comes across as a chaotic mess of individuals managing individual cases. Nobody ever seems to know anything except the case they personally deal with and there is nobody to talk to. I see the same things being done three times when they could be done once. I can’t tell you how much NHS time we’ve wasted by being called in, only to find nobody is expecting us and having hours of people’s’ time (not to mention our own) being passed from pillar to post and then having to go home again to come back a different day. And don’t get me started on the archaic approach to appointment

Yes, we need more overpaid technocrats calling themselves 'workflow managers' and shit.

More actual healthcare staff please.

 

[Winot]

A lot of people aren't coping, and they're frightened. Even if they had the education to manage minor illness they want to see a doctor or nurse because they need the relationship and the experience of being looked after. To look after yourself you need the experience of being looked after first. Not keen on the notion of self care for that reason.

This strikes me too. The GP model in theory could cover this, but is clearly broken due to insufficient GPs.

And yet every year talented and keen young people are rejected for medical degrees.

 

[LDC]

This strikes me too. The GP model in theory could cover this, but is clearly broken due to insufficient GPs.

And yet every year talented and keen young people are rejected for medical degrees.

Yeah I think education for HCPs really needs looking at, especially doctors. I expect lots of very capable people get rejected for no good reason, or are unable to access for financial reason.

 

[LDC]

A lot of people aren't coping, and they're frightened. Even if they had the education to manage minor illness they want to see a doctor or nurse because they need the relationship and the experience of being looked after. To look after yourself you need the experience of being looked after first. Not keen on the notion of self care for that reason.

But it's both. Classes in first aid and self care now won't fix the problem now, but long term they'll help take some of the pressure off the NHS, especially if combined with less work, better housing, family support, more collective living solutions, quicker access to advice and primary and mental health care.

 

[Red Cat]

This strikes me too. The GP model in theory could cover this, but is clearly broken due to insufficient GPs.

And yet every year talented and keen young people are rejected for medical degrees.

The GP model is too much pressure on individuals. MDT health centres are the way to go I think, shared caseloads, holistic. Someone posts on the sofa thread about a clinic in South London for adolescents, access to a doctor or nurse or counsellor or whoever depending on the issue. I'd love to work in a place like that.