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Opinion: "The End of Meat Is Here" - NY Times

Daal and chapatis rather eat Linda McCartney sausages Tbh.
i said good daal - like a really good tarka with almost burnt garlic, and cumin and slow cooked onion...or a really chilli-y black lentil daal with thick cream stirred in at the the end. admittedly i like ghee and/or yoghurt for chapatis too, none of mine would be vegan, but you get the gist no?

shit daal and day-old chapatis not so much, but you could say that about any food.

we tried some confusingly meat-like sausage-free-meatless-sticks the other day. vegan won't touch them now cos she doesn't trust they are meat-free 🤷 (but "doesn't like" lentils/daal :rolleyes:)
 
My close association with the meat industry was when as a youth I worked on a farm that was slaughtering its flock of geese for Christmas. The geese were all gathered together in a pen and taken out one by one to be bashed on the back of the head with a short metal club. Their throats were then immediately cut and they were hung up by their feet such that they bled out onto the floor below. Immediately my colleagues and I set to work to pluck them, using a machine to pluck the soft downy feathers on their chests.

There were so many geese in the flock that the floor was inches deep in blood. I was busy in my plucking role but people later in the process presented the geese such that they could move to the next stage - the shop.

The whole flock were processed the same day, I didn't have much time to think about it, they were farm animals and this was their destiny, while alive they had acted as an intruder alarm at the farm as they reacted loudly to anyone arriving, but they were always destined for the dinner plate.
 
At another time as a student I had a part time job in a tannery which involved processing pelts for the local shoe and leather industries. The pelts don't resemble animals although they have their general shape, but it is easy to disassociate leather pelts from actual animals.

Leather is used significantly in footwear and jackets and very effectively. The tannery required me to process the hides through mills which rolled the hides flat and often created a glossy side, for their next application. Leather pelts have a particular smell which pervaded the tannery. I didn't get involved in dying processes and I didn't work there very long.

Leather products have a premium over man made materials, man made shoes are usually cheaper than leather, and leather jackets more expensive than man made. I haven't been able to afford a proper leather jacket for many years, but I always buy leather shoes and recently bought a Buffalo hide wallet which is a special thing.
 
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Exactly what I was thinking, but I guess people like myself click new posts since last visit so sub forums wouldn't help, unless users can ignore a particular section? Or just be banned from them full stop.

The whole meat vs veg thing is yawn on here, and people just need respect what ever the other person wants to do as well as their opinions, instead of trying to brainwash/troll whatever it is.
Why is it so hard to just ignore a thread if you find it boring or if it isn't of interest to you? I don't understand why anybody would click on a thread that they know that they're not going to like before they even enter it then then post in that same thread complaining about how boring it is. What's that all about? As it says on the tin, "other threads are available"

I don't think there's anything wrong with a good robust discussion. Sure it can get a bit tiresome when there are people who's primary goal is to troll, and if it's blatant then the mods have every right to thread ban.
I haven't checked the other thread to see what all the fuss was about and why so many got banned, but can't be arsed right now.
 
40 years of feeling hectored by my family... with their sincere personal and political positions since I somehow failed to throw off the yoke of patriarchy (so slack) and guiltily made a cooked dinner (with variations) every...single...night for 40 years (I had some control during the eldest's childhood since he only ate muesli anyway). Generally, my choices were dictated by cost, amount of time and effort in preparation, accessibility, potential of being tweaked to suit all prevailing tastes and ideologies, with a much tinier calculation of nutritional value (sadly often trumped by taste value) Ethical guidelines are only a vague noise in the background...a sort of guilty hum but drowned out by more pressing concerns. For sure, I make some attempts at principles (free range chicken), sheep and, as any decent omnivore, I feel I am adaptable but honestly, I have been whacked into submission by my own family to not really give a shit and would cheerfully eat an anti-hunger pill. And this in such a privileged position with all variety of relatively cheap food at hand. So I can't help feeling that overblown statements such as 'the End of Meat is near' is misleading since it patently isn't.
 
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My sister recently decided to start eating meat again because she's so broke she relies on food banks and volunteer food delivery services to keep herself fed, and they provide portions of different types of food, with meat being a separate type - not eating it would mean missing out on a pretty substantial amount of calories. She probably wouldn't starve, but it would have been a huge increase in stress and effort at a time when she's pretty busy focusing on squinting at her phone waiting for the next terribly-paid gig so that she can make rent. I'm a vegetarian myself but I went ahead and ate a chicken burrito with her the last time I was at her place because she cooked for both of us and forgot that I still wasn't eating meat - she was really pretty ashamed and embarrassed about forgetting and her own "lapsing" back into omnivorousness, and I didn't want to impose any more difficulties on her. There's definitely a lot of reasons people often have for eating meat. I'm more of an "environmental" than a "moral" vegetarian myself anyway (not that I love animal suffering and death, mind you), so it's easier for me to make such exceptions.

As an American, though, I really think we eat way more meat than is necessary. I'd be happy enough just seeing a reduction in quantity consumed, or a reduction of economic incentives to at least make it a little less common for people to eat meat at every single meal, because the sheer amount some people eat is truly ridiculous, and it really is bad for the environment. Not to mention the people who make an active effort to eat as much meat as humanly possible and complain about all food which doesn't contain it and the existence of vegetarians/vegans in general.

Even reducing the quantity of meat consumed in America will be a tremendous uphill battle, though, and I don't think it's coming quickly. The title of the article is pretty overblown. As everyone here already knows, Americans have a real tendency to dig in their heels and resent any changes in behavior whatsoever whose purpose is to help the community at their own perceived expense, even shit like face masks during a pandemic becomes some stupid excuse for flag-waving individualism, let alone a dietary change that goes against how they've eaten their whole lives. I do think that a number of factors are converging that will result in some changes, but change is going to be made as unpleasant as possible, and there's a lot of people that will need to be forced kicking and screaming into inconveniencing themselves even a tiny bit.

This maybe strays a bit too far from the vegetarian topic, but I've had a lot of Chinese and Korean friends in my life and spent a lot of time in their communities, and while I don't necessarily love everything about their culture the general focus on caring about the impact your actions have on the larger group sometimes even at your own expense does have a tendency to make me feel like American culture has quite a few embarrassingly childish traits. It's not great to let people walk all over you or be a huge conformist or always bow to authority in every situation, but life can really be a lot better when most people are willing to take a small hit for the greater good instead of just doing whatever makes them happy in the short term all the time despite the difficulties that arise when everyone acts that way. At an individual level, giving up meat just to help the environment in a tiny way is definitely not something most people here are ever going to be okay with, even if there would be great benefits if everyone did it.
 
I worked in a slaughterhouse once. In addition to meat we produced quite a lot of sheepskin. So if meat goes, there'll be a shortage of flying jackets and woolly boots and car seat covers. Think on.
 
Why is it so hard to just ignore a thread if you find it boring or if it isn't of interest to you? I don't understand why anybody would click on a thread that they know that they're not going to like before they even enter it then then post in that same thread complaining about how boring it is. What's that all about? As it says on the tin, "other threads are available"

I don't think there's anything wrong with a good robust discussion. Sure it can get a bit tiresome when there are people who's primary goal is to troll, and if it's blatant then the mods have every right to thread ban.
I haven't checked the other thread to see what all the fuss was about and why so many got banned, but can't be arsed right now.

you missed my point. I’d like to take part but I can’t be arsed reading the childish shit over and over and over. that’s what is yawn.
 
you missed my point. I’d like to take part but I can’t be arsed reading the childish shit over and over and over. that’s what is yawn.
...but it's easy to take part positively in other threads or even start one of your own if nothing takes your fancy. To be fair, you've already "taken part" in this thread, albeit just to complain.

Now I understand your irritation, but on contentious issues there's always a risk of people that don't "get along", and in this thread the mod stepped in quite early to minimize that. Then you came in at post 150, missing out the majority of the fairly reasonable thread. There's also another relatively "safe zone" vegan thread out there somewhere that you could also take part in.

The subject of veganism at the moment appears to elicit a hostile response more often than not, and the "first responders" seem to believe that they are entitled to react in the way they do citing "provocation". My way of dealing with these trolls, should they choose to interact is to tolerate them for maybe 3 or 4 posts to see if there's any substance and if they are not able to conduct themselves in a civilized and sensible manner, I stop responding and move on. It's true that threads can get a bit messy once the trolls get involved, but it's best to pay them no mind and get on with whatever you want to do.
 
...but it's easy to take part positively in other threads or even start one of your own if nothing takes your fancy. To be fair, you've already "taken part" in this thread, albeit just to complain.

Now I understand your irritation, but on contentious issues there's always a risk of people that don't "get along", and in this thread the mod stepped in quite early to minimize that. Then you came in at post 150, missing out the majority of the fairly reasonable thread. There's also another relatively "safe zone" vegan thread out there somewhere that you could also take part in.

The subject of veganism at the moment appears to elicit a hostile response more often than not, and the "first responders" seem to believe that they are entitled to react in the way they do citing "provocation". My way of dealing with these trolls, should they choose to interact is to tolerate them for maybe 3 or 4 posts to see if there's any substance and if they are not able to conduct themselves in a civilized and sensible manner, I stop responding and move on. It's true that threads can get a bit messy once the trolls get involved, but it's best to pay them no mind and get on with whatever you want to do.
After the earlier intervention, this thread seems to be faring far better than others, so I'd be grateful if other posters could keep on topic and not keep referring to the previous, and generally unpleasant, threads. Thank you.
 
don't have a standard one just google a few soz.

I think the fried-down garlic is something I need to try. :)
Unrelated handy tip: there is a vegan version of Tuna out there called Tuno.

The manufacturers have helpfully inserted a clue in the second syllable.
 
I think the fried-down garlic is something I need to try. :)
Unrelated handy tip: there is a vegan version of Tuna out there called Tuno.

The manufacturers have helpfully inserted a clue in the second syllable.
I hope it's a diagonal line with a fish in the O Ghostbusters style.
 
I hope it's a diagonal line with a fish in the O Ghostbusters style.

Sorry, no.
Texture-wise it's very like cat food (little chunks of something unspeakable bound up in a jelly).

That's its only good point, though.
 
Sorry, no.
Texture-wise it's very like cat food (little chunks of something unspeakable bound up in a jelly).

That's its only good point, though.
I used to eat Tuna sandwiches with stupid amounts of vinegar. The one substitute I tried tasted ok served like that. It wasn't so nice straight from the tin.
 
I used to eat Tuna sandwiches with stupid amounts of vinegar. The one substitute I tried tasted ok served like that. It wasn't so nice straight from the tin.
That's the only way I ever used to eat the stuff. Is this a British thing?
 
I used to eat Tuna sandwiches with stupid amounts of vinegar. The one substitute I tried tasted ok served like that. It wasn't so nice straight from the tin.

I expect with enough vinegar the taste might be nulled, but you still have the texture of cat food with this stuff.
 
At another time as a student I had a part time job in a tannery which involved processing pelts for the local shoe and leather industries. The pelts don't resemble animals although they have their general shape, but it is easy to disassociate leather pelts from actual animals.

Leather is used significantly in footwear and jackets and very effectively. The tannery required me to process the hides through mills which rolled the hides flat and often created a glossy side, for their next application. Leather pelts have a particular smell which pervaded the tannery. I didn't get involved in dying processes and I didn't work there very long.

Leather products have a premium over man made materials, man made shoes are usually cheaper than leather, and leather jackets more expensive than man made. I haven't been able to afford a proper leather jacket for many years, but I always buy leather shoes and recently bought a Buffalo hide wallet which is a special thing.

The thing about a leather jacket is their immense longevity. I have two that are over 30 years old, and still serviceable.
 
I expect with enough vinegar the taste might be nulled, but you still have the texture of cat food with this stuff.
A girl I worked with popped in to mine one night after a club to use the toilet on the way home. While she was in there I started eating some Tuna from the tin. As she left she gave me a funny look as she jumped in my mates car to go the rest of the way. Next time I saw him he asked how long I had been eating cat food and if everything was ok...
 
A good response to the NY Times article by Ryan...


...and some decent analysis by Klaus on the relationship between Covid-19 and the meat industry...


"So the bottom line is this. If an infectious disease from a meat market or factory farm turns into a pandemic once every 5, 10 or 15 years, at what point to we say enough is enough?
Can we afford the cost of a pandemic like this again? And if we can't how can we justify continuing to eat animals products when we don't need to?
 
After the earlier intervention, this thread seems to be faring far better than others, so I'd be grateful if other posters could keep on topic and not keep referring to the previous, and generally unpleasant, threads. Thank you.
Where is the other thread? I can't seem to find it
 
I had cut back to eating meat only twice a week.
However, lockdown changed this because I am cocooned and have been getting food delivered.
The shop only allowed 80 items per shop online and as I could only get slots every 2 weeks I had to make choices regarding food. Feeding 4 people here. So yeh. We are back on meat because we eat one good meal day and it has to last. I make a big beef bolognese and it lasts 3 dinners. One of which will be lasagne. I use chicken for another dinner and sandwiches next day or salad. And I make either bugers in buns or in gravy the next day.
One day a week we eat a salad made up of mixed leaves I've grown on the windowsill and have a fresh fruit dessert.
As the 4 of us are cocooned due to 2 being over 80 with serious health problems and the other 2 having underlying health problems, I dont see this changing much in the foreseeable future.

I am growing veg and tomatoes but they wont be ready for weeks.

So for now.. its how we are coping
 
I must admit to being a little disappointed that we are not living in a world where meat is growing in petri dishes in labs by now, but then I also wanted a jet pack and that hasn't happened either.
 
A girl I worked with popped in to mine one night after a club to use the toilet on the way home. While she was in there I started eating some Tuna from the tin. As she left she gave me a funny look as she jumped in my mates car to go the rest of the way. Next time I saw him he asked how long I had been eating cat food and if everything was ok...

When I was really poor I tried eating cat food. If you use the quality stuff and mix it with oatmeal and spices, you can get it down. Dog biscuits are more palatable. Ultimately, I found that eating rice and beans was both cheaper. and more palatable.
 
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