Opinion: "The End of Meat Is Here" - NY Times

[Funky_monks]

Oh come on: just because there's a handful that you know operating (guffaw) "humanely," that clearly doesn't cancel out or negate justified criticism of the well documented, appalling conditions found in many other abattoirs.

The regs are the same industry wide, they all have an on site vet and are subject to inspection.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

The regs are the same industry wide, they all have an on site vet and are subject to inspection.

You’re either a fantasist or a propagandist.

 

[Funky_monks]

You’re either a fantasist or a propagandist.

How many have you been in?
And, if they aren't complying, how is it I have no difficulty booking visits with students in tow?
I take both Vet and Ag students, vet students have to work in an abattoir as part of their degree, so they are put on placement all over the country....

 

[editor]

How many have you been in?
And, if they aren't complying, how is it I have no difficulty booking visits with students in tow?
I take both Vet and Ag students, vet students have to work in an abattoir as part of their degree, so they are put on placement all over the country....

No one is doubting that many slaughterhouses are as "humane" (LOL) as an awful industry that is all about killing as many animals as quickly as possible can be, but you seem to be in some strange denial that not all maintain high standards. heck, you even mentioned the awful, awful YouTube videos that show just how cruel and violent such places can be.

But even the presence of an on-site vet doesn't always guarantee that cruelty won't take place:

Sustainable Food Trust - News and views

The latest blogs, articles and updates from the Sustainable Food Trust.

sustainablefoodtrust.org

Have vets really sold out to industrial agri-business?

Most of us think of James Herriot when we think of vets. But a new book says this most-esteemed of professions has 'become complicit in supporting a system that is inherently bad for animal welfare'. Lucy Siegle reports

www.theguardian.com

I was disturbed at some of the practices I came across even at this early stage. Filthy conditions, cramped living quarters and neglect seemed to be the norm. Yet I was told these were isolated cases and encouraged to turn a blind eye. Keen to make a good impression, I did as I was told and buried the feelings of discomfort deep inside – something I would later learn was necessary for survival in the farming industry.

Despite these experiences, I was even more determined to become a vet and spent six months working on an intensive pig farm when I was 18. On my first day, we came across a piglet when a broken leg while I was being shown around. The worker picked her up by the back legs and smashed her head into the concrete floor. I had to sit down in shock. This was an exemplary farm that was clean and well-managed and this is an accepted method of ‘euthanising’ piglets up to 4 weeks old. The lucky ones who avoided having their brains smashed in had their tails cut off and teeth cut without any anaesthetic or pain relief. How could this be legal?

Pig Vet Shuns Factory Farming and Goes Vegan

Last summer, I left my career as a livestock vet in the pig industry after four years to join Viva! These four years gave me experiences that will haunt me forever and created an unwavering passion to effect change.

www.viva.org.uk

 

[editor]

How many have you been in?
And, if they aren't complying, how is it I have no difficulty booking visits with students in tow?
I take both Vet and Ag students, vet students have to work in an abattoir as part of their degree, so they are put on placement all over the country....

What percentage of UK factory farms accept students on placement?

 

[Funky_monks]

What percentage of UK factory farms accept students on placement?

No idea, but I've placed students with people who grown chickens on behalf of
Avara and various BQP farms.
Caveat: 40% of UK pig production is outdoors.
My third years also visit a broiler killing/packing plant for UK supermarkets.

 

[Funky_monks]

No one is doubting that many slaughterhouses are as "humane" (LOL) as an awful industry that is all about killing as many animals as quickly as possible can be, but you seem to be in some strange denial that not all maintain high standards. heck, you even mentioned the awful, awful YouTube videos that show just how cruel and violent such places can be.

But even the presence of an on-site vet doesn't always guarantee that cruelty won't take place:

Sustainable Food Trust - News and views

The latest blogs, articles and updates from the Sustainable Food Trust.

sustainablefoodtrust.org

Have vets really sold out to industrial agri-business?

Most of us think of James Herriot when we think of vets. But a new book says this most-esteemed of professions has 'become complicit in supporting a system that is inherently bad for animal welfare'. Lucy Siegle reports

www.theguardian.com

Pig Vet Shuns Factory Farming and Goes Vegan

Last summer, I left my career as a livestock vet in the pig industry after four years to join Viva! These four years gave me experiences that will haunt me forever and created an unwavering passion to effect change.

www.viva.org.uk

Where did I deny that some don't maintain standards? All industries have those who aren't up to scratch.
I'm just pointing out, that I've spent quite a lot of time in and around them and not heard anything that suggests malpractice from the ones we use, although if you were running a dodgy abattoir, youd probably be unlikely to give student tours...

 

[editor]

Where did I deny that some don't maintain standards? All industries have those who aren't up to scratch.
I'm just pointing out, that I've spent quite a lot of time in and around them and not heard anything that suggests malpractice from the ones we use, although if you were running a dodgy abattoir, youd probably be unlikely to give student tours...

Yes, but that is statement is completely pointless unless you can say how many factory farms offer student tours. If it's only a small percentage, then it sheds absolutely no light at all on how many factory farms are mistreating animals.

 

[Funky_monks]

Yes, but that is statement is completely pointless unless you can say how many factory farms offer student tours. If it's only a small percentage, then it sheds absolutely no light at all on how many factory farms are mistreating animals.

I told you in the post above how I'd placed students in broiler units and on pig farms...

 

[Saunders]

I would give lab grown meat a try.

Would you really? Why? Lab grown meat sounds like all my dystopian fears come true.

 

[Funky_monks]

Would you really? Why? Lab grown meat sounds like all my dystopian fears come true.

It's mine too - it's like turkey twizzlers, but entirely synthetic as opposed to carcass scrapings, sawdust and trans fats....

 

[Saunders]

It's mine too - it's like turkey twizzlers, but entirely synthetic as opposed to carcass scrapings, sawdust and trans fats....

Hm no. I don’t imagine ‘lab grown meat’ as what you described. I see it as ‘the perfect fillet steak’, engineered to greedy consumers palates. It was just a throw away comment, I don't have anything useful to add to this debate.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Meanwhile, activist groups have also kept busy, using our hurt, our struggles and this pandemic to further their agendas.

I’ve blogged about this several times already in the last couple of months, and I am committed to updating you on the latest actions of these groups. That’s because their aim is to strip the American producer off the land, to take away our ability to own animals and to eliminate meat, dairy and eggs from the dinner table.

It’s not a conspiracy theory — the proof is in the actions. Once you start connecting the dots, you’ll notice that whatever the virtue signaling might be (from environmental sustainability to animal welfare), they are all tied to one thing — destroying the traditional meat production system and disrupting the meat case in favor of something trendy and new — plant-based and lab-created faux patties.

Let me give you a few recent examples.

At a Canadian Cargill plant, protestors stood outside the facility, calling it unsafe and exploitive to the workers. Protesters said they were there to “pay respects to the livestock animals who are in the last hours of their lives.

“This is absolutely unacceptable in that slaughterhouses are not essential,” said Trev Miller, a spokesperson for Calgary Vegan Activists, in an interview with the Global News.

Activists working to pinpoint your ranch on an aerial map

Extremists are taking advantage of this crisis and moving in on their target — you.

www.beefmagazine.com

"Activists" are oh so scary, but the main example they give is of an entirely peaceful protest.

 

[editor]

Activists working to pinpoint your ranch on an aerial map

Extremists are taking advantage of this crisis and moving in on their target — you.

www.beefmagazine.com

"Activists" are oh so scary, but the main example they give is of an entirely peaceful protest.

That article is unhinged.

 

[Favelado]

Lidl's spicy bean-burgers are really nice and definitely something I can eat once a week. Throw in their vegan curry and just cutting out the odd meat meal, I can definitely make some progress. That will do for the time-being while I ruminate on if and when further steps happens.

 

[butcher]

Oh come on: just because there's a handful that you know operating (guffaw) "humanely," that clearly doesn't cancel out or negate justified criticism of the well documented, appalling conditions found in many other abattoirs.

How many have you actually been to one Ed?

My experience chimes with Funky_Monks.

Just like it is easy to find well documented obnoxious vegans and on youtube, it does not necessarily mean that the vast majority of vegans are like that.

You will generally find intensive farms are the less humane institutions, and abattoirs are keen to minimise stress exactly for the reasons stated above.

ETA all butchery level 2 & 3 courses include abattoir trips. Most abattoirs will have visitors providing they have a good reason, ie are in the food industry.

 

[freakydave]

It's mine too - it's like turkey twizzlers, but entirely synthetic as opposed to carcass scrapings, sawdust and trans fats....

The animals that we use for meat are already a dystopian nightmare. Even the animals that get to live outside on proper farms are full of drugs and hormones and so on

If you buy normal meat in a supermarket the whole process is dystopian

 

[editor]

How many have you actually been to one Ed?

My experience chimes with Funky_Monks.

Just like it is easy to find well documented obnoxious vegans and on youtube, it does not necessarily mean that the vast majority of vegans are like that.

You will generally find intensive farms are the less humane institutions, and abattoirs are keen to minimise stress exactly for the reasons stated above.

ETA all butchery level 2 & 3 courses include abattoir trips. Most abattoirs will have visitors providing they have a good reason, ie are in the food industry.

None, and I never want to visit such disgusting places, not that mine or your experience of watching industrial scale slaughter alters the fact that cruelty takes places in some abattoirs. There has been plenty of evidence to support this. Do you dispute it?


(Personally, I think that all abattoirs all inhumane by their very nature, unless you're going to argue that the animals want to be killed).

 

[Funky_monks]

The animals that we use for meat are already a dystopian nightmare. Even the animals that get to live outside on proper farms are full of drugs and hormones and so on

If you buy normal meat in a supermarket the whole process is dystopian

Are they?
Please educate me.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Are they?
Please educate me.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Lidl's spicy bean-burgers are really nice and definitely something I can eat once a week. Throw in their vegan curry and just cutting out the odd meat meal, I can definitely make some progress. That will do for the time-being while I ruminate on if and when further steps happens.

Lidl have launched their own beef-style burger now:

Lidl Creates Affordable Beyond Burger Inspired 'Next Level Burger'

The German budget retailer's plant-based patty is made from vegetables, pea, soy and wheat protein, and beetroot juice

www.plantbasednews.org

.

 

[editor]

Lidl have launched their own beef-style burger now:

Lidl Creates Affordable Beyond Burger Inspired 'Next Level Burger'

The German budget retailer's plant-based patty is made from vegetables, pea, soy and wheat protein, and beetroot juice

www.plantbasednews.org

.

I'll look forward to trying it out when it gets to the UK. I'm still really enjoying the Richmond vegan sausages. Cheap and incredibly tasty. I know one meat eating friend who's declared them to be miles better than the same brand's meat* sausages!

* say 'meat' but those things are usually full of all sorts of strange things.

 

[Favelado]

I found the bean burger tasted good, had some bite to it, and filled me up for a while. 3 or four decent quick options like that for people who are busy and you're onto a winner.

 

[8ball]

Meat production has risen exponentially and not in line with the population growth. Hence my comment.

What's the exponent?

 

[editor]

What's the exponent?

" (with reference to an increase) more and more rapidly."

 

[8ball]

" (with reference to an increase) more and more rapidly."

No, that wasn't the question.
Take a breath and have another go.

 

[Favelado]

No, that wasn't the question.
Take a breath and have another go.

He just needs a word with a vaguely synonymous meaning and you've run out of road. His use of 'exponential', while not mathematically true, serves the purpose of his argument.

You know, that's just how language works. That's why 'fuck' doesn't mean 'hit someone with a stick' anymore.

 

[8ball]

He just needs a word with a vaguely synonymous meaning and you've run out of road.

Run out of road? What are you even talking about? Urban has gone proper cabin fever these last few days.

 

[editor]

He just needs a word with a vaguely synonymous meaning and you've run out of road. His use of 'exponential', while not mathematically true, serves the purpose of his argument.

You know, that's just how language works. That's why 'fuck' doesn't mean 'hit someone with a stick' anymore.

Yep. He thinks he's being awfully clever but all he's doing is making an arse of himself and pointlessly disrupting the debate with trivial nitpicking that no one gives a fuck about. Wind it in 8ball FFS

 

[editor]

Run out of road? What are you even talking about? Urban has gone proper cabin fever these last few days.

If you're unable or unwilling to engage with the topic of this thread, please GTFO.