#occupy London....

[Luther Blissett]

Perhaps but he and those like him do exist and therefore present a very real threat to the legitimacy of the movement. What if the Klu klux Klan turn up or the White Supremacists. Should they be tolerated too?

This is a fundamental problem with trying to build a movement that is all things to all people. It is impossible. There has to be at least a minumum of agreed principles and anti racism should be an obvious one. They should take a vote on excluding those who are explicitly racist or reactionary and then act on that vote by warning them off if possible, but by force if necessary.

It's very, very, very, very, very, very unlikely that white supremacists will try to join the movement in the US.
You probably know that the Tea Party are already dead against it.

Over here in UK, the usual EDL/BNP twitters are already against it and unlikely to join in.
The 'libertarian' right so far appear to be against (Old Holborn, Guido Fawkes).
Supporters of all these have been trolling and mocking 'the left' (as they call it) since the OLSX protest began.

 

[Blagsta]

In the UK, there are Freemen of the Land types involved, who aren't exactly friendly to the left.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Which ones are they? It comes with an entire world view, which is racist and right wing.

I disagree, although our wires may be crossed. The banks practice fraud, they have done for a long time though the advent of computer trading and the abolition of regulation has made it worse. Where is the inherent "world view", still less racist or right wing stuff that comes with that demonstrable analysis?

 

[Blagsta]

I disagree, although our wires may be crossed. The banks practice fraud, they have done for a long time though the advent of computer trading and the abolition of regulation has made it worse. Where is the inherent "world view", still less racist or right wing stuff that comes with that demonstrable analysis?

You know as well as I do, that this stuff comes with a heap of other stuff, like advocating a return to a gold based standard, viewing the banks as the sole problem, global " financial elites" etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

...

 

[audiotech]

Occupy Bristol set-up camp.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/201...stdssXz40yiLOf9vt-CFCONX01FRS-32kg9XXX&ref=nf

 

[Pickman's model]

My thinking is somewhere between yours and Pickman's Model. I've always been aware of, and generally contemptuous of, the elements of "professional activism" throughout the left. By this I mean not the committed and sincere women and men who sometimes risk their lives on the front-lines of protests, but the plastic revolutionaries in their offices and their committees, sitting safe and deciding "policy" while others get their skulls bashed.
Those kinds of "activists", the ones who want to direct from one remove, are the sort that no movement actually needs. If you want to "lead", then lead from the front or not at all.

yeh, those plastic types are the sort of people i'm against, and you're right, there are a lot of brave and committed people out there doing their best to make a difference who i'm all in favour of.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

In the UK, there are Freemen of the Land types involved, who aren't exactly friendly to the left.

Now they are a bunch who got on my tits recently. Not that I find their ideas uninteresting, although all that knowledge ought to be put to more use than trying to get out of parking fines.

Thing is, a young and impressionable friend of mine was up for a public order offence and tehy were telling him he should just defy the court. All very well for them to say when someone else's balls are on the line. It was a shockingly irresponsible line, besides which he had, even in their own terms, already submitted to the authority of the system.

We know how arrogant and "I know best" the truthers can be, but it doesn't behove us to be just as arrognat and broad brush. There are things in common, and things that differ. They need constructive debating at some time because both "camps" seem to have a voice in the occupations. I'm not sure if people in either camp have the patience though. The amount of flaming and insults I've had from both sides would have put a lot of people off. Now you will excuse me, I have to go and make my own crucifix

 

[audiotech]

 

[Corax]

Are there people there identifying with anon, or do they just like the masks?

 

[Gramsci]

I went down there this morning with some food. They have a camp kitchen set up. If you want to take any food they would welcome it.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I like the guy in the top photo who is wearing a suit with the "time's up" board. Activists in suit scramble the branes of many a conservative.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

From Occupy Toronto, but well worth posting here.

 

[shaman75]

Took them some rope and gaffa tape this evening. Was quite windy down there.

This was the crowd at the main assembly. Started about 7pm.

They've been donated some marquees too, so the kitchen and media tents are going to get a bit better. Someoe said some solar power was arriving tomorrow.

 

[Lo Siento.]

i made clear what i mean by activist in post 319, which you quoted and where you didn't take issue with my definition - it seems to have flown over your head. your bit about 'normal people' doesn't add anything to your facile nonsense.

throughout both posts I took issue with your definition of "activists". As an aside, if you were looking for the definition of a shite, easy explanation then activsts retarding social change by "putting people off" is pretty much it, tbh.

 

[audiotech]

I like the guy in the top photo who is wearing a suit with the "time's up" board. Activists in suit scramble the branes of many a conservative.

Yep, rather than those stupid 'anon masks' and 'free hugs' nonsense.

Seen video of what looked like a huge march in Brussels over the weekend and some stirrings in Edinburgh.

 

[Pickman's model]

throughout both posts I took issue with your definition of "activists". As an aside, if you were looking for the definition of a shite, easy explanation then activsts retarding social change by "putting people off" is pretty much it, tbh.

i didn't say that activists retard social change though, did i? do you really read and actually comprehend what people post? because it doesn't fucking look like it from where i'm sat.

 

[shaman75]

They have a chatroom if anyone wants to try and participate without actually going.

Dunno how effective it'll be but...

http://irc.lc/indymedia/OccupyLSX

 

[Stanley Edwards]

I went down there this morning with some food. They have a camp kitchen set up. If you want to take any food they would welcome it.

Is it for free, or do you have to pay?



I don't trust these types. They proclaim liberty from financial constraints, the when you take what they offer for free they slam you down.

 

[BigTom]

Not a bad vid, but there are people on about UK being a limited company and birth certificates being a scam, which is standard Freemen of the Land crap, but the basic underlying message was spot on. The bloke who went on about chemtrails is on there too. Lots of vague waffling about humanity being one for my taste.

Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but without talking about issues which directly affect them, i.e. housing, health services, jobs, schools etc, then most people are gonna ignore it. I see nothing in this vid that makes me think this will draw in ordinary people.

That bit obviously went in one ear and out the other I know there at FOTL types there. I hope that it does nothing more than get them in trouble with the law, but I understand the right wing ideology that underlies it.

I agree with you, but I'd also say that actually a lot more people were stopping and reading their big sign and taking a leaflet and being interested than has happened at any anti-cuts thing I've done in town, except perhaps the first big UK Uncut action at the start of december last year.
However, if they are then being met with discussions that are about chemtrails and love then it's not going to follow through..
I've only spent a few hours there this afternoon, but I think ordinary people are being drawn in. Not just from what is directly there but because they know of the whole occupy/99% thing and support it.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

You know what's wrong with this thread?

You're all talking about them/they/those.

None of you really believe.

 

[Brainaddict]

Was down at St Paul's tonight. Ended up in a discussion group of 10 with 4 trots (dispiriting not because they were trots but because they kept spouting abstract 'radical' theory, then suggested we target tax-evading retail outlets). Then I had a discussion with a conspiracy theorist who thought the Illuminati and the Rothschilds control everything (apparently it's not about race, it's particular families who control the world ). I also had a discussion with a self-confessed Blairite who was surprisingly open-minded and obviously there because he wanted to have his mind opened a bit more. And I met a fair few cool people who understood they were in it for the long haul, building alternative power to oppose and restructure.

 

[redsquirrel]

Totally. The nazis didn't use it for nothing. You can't say so without some smartarse invoking Godwin, but it doesn't make it less true

And you wonder why SL called you a loon.

 

[DownwardDog]

The focus seems to be on the two upcoming strikes (general and student), the NHS cuts, and anti-war.

What about fucking climate change? It's pissing down here.

The capital owning class is breathing a sigh of relief as OccupyWhatever attempts to mitigate its utter lack of politics with top down ambiguous bullshit.

 

[Kizmet]

Utter lack of politics?

 

[Kizmet]

As an aside, a welfare tent should be showing up tomorrow afternoon. Unpaid, of course, so will be short of supplies... if you're going down with a mind to... tea, milk, sugar etc would be great.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

They have a chatroom if anyone wants to try and participate without actually going.

Dunno how effective it'll be but...

http://irc.lc/indymedia/OccupyLSX

hmmmm... should be kinda secure using IRCs.. prop old school.. though i would advise anyone using this channel to spoof their IP....
There are other safer IRCs around... i have heard reports of UK Indy's keeping records of participants IPs....
ah well.. always be safe when using 'internet communication spaces'......

 

[ska invita]

I went to visit the Occupy London site at St Paul's today. I went with the specific intention of getting people to talk to me about what their goals were, what the strategy was, and how they viewed the politics of the occupation. To this end, I went round nabbing people for interviews, and eventually ended up talking to someone at the media tent. Before delving into the politics of Occupy London, I want to describe what's involved in sustaining such an activity for those who aren't able to be there.... http://leninology.blogspot.com/2011/10/visiting-occupy-london.html

Great article. Positive yet critical and ultimately optimistic [@ dylans]

 

[Pickman's model]

You know what's wrong with this thread?

You're all talking about them/they/those.

None of you really believe.

 

[dylans]

http://leninology.blogspot.com/2011/10/visiting-occupy-london.html

Great article. Positive yet critical and ultimately optimistic