Norn Iron election results

[scalyboy]

Could someone give me an outline of the significance of yesterday’s results specific to Northern Ireland / the Six Counties / Norn Iron? From what I can see, if Sinn Fein have 7 MPs and the DUP, UUP & TUV also got 7, does that mean a dead heat and (laughs disbelievingly) the Nationalist & Unionist parties will have to co-operate?

This is assuming the 7 Unionists from the 3 separate parties would be united.

And is there any chance of the Alliance and / or SDLP MPs would go into coalition with SF, thus giving them a majority?

I seem to recall that some time ago, the post of First Minister was filled by a Unionist and Deputy First Minister by a Shinner, even though the job titles were purely symbolic and didn’t imply any seniority of the first over the second - but had been created simply so that Unionists wouldn’t lose their shit cos SF were in charge… was this after the 2019 election and had there been a ‘dead heat’ as it appears to me has happened now?

Any answers gratefully received; my
partner’s mum is from Ireland, an ardent Nationalist, in her 90s, very well-read and well-informed about Irish politics and history.

So I like to try to hold my end up (as it were) when we’re chatting about Ireland - in between blasting out rebel songs at top volume and annoying the neighbours, as she sometimes refuses to wear her hearing aid

 

[cupid_stunt]

The current First Minister is Sinn Fein, and SF doesn't take up their seats in Westminster.

 

[Idris2002]

Having taken some very bad knocks in last month's local and Euro elections in the South, SF seem to have turned it around in the North. The absolute leathering the DUP have got would be a sign of deeper shifts in the body politic alright.

As far as I can tell, Starmer is no friend of Irish unity. With the SNP dished in Scotland, he may think the Union is in a healthier state than for many years. But for all that it's in the Union, NI remains a place apart.

 

[Sue]

Having taken some very bad knocks in last month's local and Euro elections in the South, SF seem to have turned it around in the North. The absolute leathering the DUP have got would be a sign of deeper shifts in the body politic alright.

Having your recent leader up on child sex abuse charges a couple of days before the GE probably didn't help either.

 

[scalyboy]

The current First Minister is Sinn Fein, and SF doesn't take up their seats in Westminster.

But would they sit at Stormont? Or is that regarded as just an ancillary instrument of the British state?
I completely understand why SF refuse to sit at Westminster - it would imply acceptance of partition and of N.I. being as British as Somerset (or maybe Powys or Perthshire would be more apposite)

 

[cupid_stunt]

But would they sit at Stormont? Or is that regarded as just an ancillary instrument of the British state?
I completely understand why SF refuse to sit at Westminster - it would imply acceptance of partition and of N.I. being as British as Somerset (or maybe Powys or Perthshire would be more apposite)

They do sit at Stormont, and hold the First Minister position.

 

[scalyboy]

Having your recent leader up on child sex abuse charges a couple of days before the GE probably didn't help either.

“IS IT TRUE JEFFREY!? YE LOOK GUILTY - TELL ME IT’S NOT TRUE! JEFFRAYYYY!!!”

Incidentally, did anyone see Ben Lowry’s quite frankly bizarre report of the Donaldson’s most recent appearance at Newry Magistrates Court? It was in the News Letter, I’ll see if I can find it in full - read some quotes, bloody odd. Describing what Sir and Lady JAFFRAYYY were wearing, as if he was reporting a garden party or opera first night for ‘Hello’ magazine…

 

[scalyboy]

They do sit at Stormont, and hold the First Minister position.

Thanks, I get it now. So Michelle O’Neill is First Minister and Emma Little-Pengelly (great name!) is Deputy. I think what confused me was remembering O’Neill being appointed Deputy in 2021 and then the two-year hiatus (with no Stormont and no ministers) following Paul Givan’s resignation in 2022
//reads hastily from Wikipedia //

 

[scalyboy]

Having your recent leader up on child sex abuse charges a couple of days before the GE probably didn't help either.

Mrs scalyboy’s cousin in Co. Antrim explained some of the craziness to me when she was on strike during that big day of action. She felt that there would have been more than a few Unionist people supporting or joining the strike, in disgust at these politicians happy to take their salaries but not do any work for two years with Stormomt suspended - and all because of the DUP’s intransigence IIRC.

So there may have been a shift in voting patterns on that account alone, although I agree that JEFFRAYY’s multiple counts of child sex abuse charges and committal won’t have helped the DUP’s fortunes to a greater extent!

Mrs s’s cousin also made the point that as a teacher, she’s paid less than her counterparts in England or Wales, yet there’s still this insistence that N.I. is just as British as Dover

 

[scalyboy]

“IS IT TRUE JEFFREY!? YE LOOK GUILTY - TELL ME IT’S NOT TRUE! JEFFRAYYYY!!!”

Incidentally, did anyone see Ben Lowry’s quite frankly bizarre report of the Donaldson’s most recent appearance at Newry Magistrates Court? It was in the News Letter, I’ll see if I can find it in full - read some quotes, bloody odd. Describing what Sir and Lady JAFFRAYYY were wearing, as if he was reporting a garden party or opera first night for ‘Hello’ magazine…

Here it is. Read it and be enraged:

“… and verbal abuse from a waiting crowd”
~ How strange and disgraceful that members of the public would respond in this way

“One of the most established politicians in the UK had to stand there amid the verbal onslaught and, in some cases, such anger…”
- Oh, the poor thing

“The sombre appearance of Sir Jeffrey Donaldson and his wife Lady Eleanor Donaldson in a sex case in Newry Magistrate’s Court on Wednesday was followed by appalling scenes outside.”
- do what, more appalling than multiple charges of child sex abuse?

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/ben-lowry-we-witnessed-sombre-and-shocking-scenes-at-the-jeffrey-donaldson-court-hearing-4607418

 

[Sue]

Here it is. Read it and be enraged:

“… and verbal abuse from a waiting crowd”
~ How strange and disgraceful that members of the public would respond in this way

“One of the most established politicians in the UK had to stand there amid the verbal onslaught and, in some cases, such anger…”
- Oh, the poor thing

“The sombre appearance of Sir Jeffrey Donaldson and his wife Lady Eleanor Donaldson in a sex case in Newry Magistrate’s Court on Wednesday was followed by appalling scenes outside.”
- do what, more appalling than multiple charges of child sex abuse?

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/ben-lowry-we-witnessed-sombre-and-shocking-scenes-at-the-jeffrey-donaldson-court-hearing-4607418

That's a terrible article. FFS.

 

[scalyboy]

That's a terrible article. FFS.

Isn't it just! And he's written another column of auld bollocks too:

"He got out wearing a dark blue suit, sporting a beard and looking perhaps slightly heavier around the face..."
~ these are the important details your readers want to know, Ben, never mind the actual charges

"He would emerge from the court later that morning to disgraceful scenes in which bystanders surged forward and shouted abuse..."
~ not from the video clip I saw. There were a load of press photographers around him as you might expect, but hardly 'disgraceful scenes' - and as for 'shouted abuse':
"IS IT TRUE JEFFERY", "Where's your dark glasses, Jeffery" & "TELL ME IT'S NOT TRUE" from a couple of fellers in the crowd, oh dear oh dear, I can see how dreadfully upsetting that must have been for him

Snowflake politicians!

 

[hitmouse]

Mrs scalyboy’s cousin in Co. Antrim explained some of the craziness to me when she was on strike during that big day of action. She felt that there would have been more than a few Unionist people supporting or joining the strike, in disgust at these politicians happy to take their salaries but not do any work for two years with Stormomt suspended - and all because of the DUP’s intransigence IIRC.

So there may have been a shift in voting patterns on that account alone, although I agree that JEFFRAYY’s multiple counts of child sex abuse charges and committal won’t have helped the DUP’s fortunes to a greater extent!

Mrs s’s cousin also made the point that as a teacher, she’s paid less than her counterparts in England or Wales, yet there’s still this insistence that N.I. is just as British as Dover

Bit tangential, and a few months old now so doesn't actually say owt about the election results, but did just recently get around to reading this article by a striking NI teacher, which I thought was pretty good and helps set some of the context out:

Strike Action Unites Northern Ireland

by Pádraig de Cléir // On Thursday 18th January 2024, over 150,000 workers in the North of Ireland’s public sector downed tools. In this article, Pádraig de Cléir - a teacher in West Belfast who took part in this strike - looks at the lessons we can learn from this strike that spanned across...

notesfrombelow.org

Settlements for public sector workers in Britain after their successful strikes have served to highlight the growing disparities across the ‘United Kingdom’. The starting salary for a nurse in Northern Ireland is £27k, whereas over the water in Scotland nurses start on £30k. The contrast for us teachers is even starker, with a starting salary of £24k in Northern Ireland, compared to £32k in Scotland, and just over the border, teachers in the Republic of Ireland start on £37k. You can imagine the challenge this presents to schools in border towns.

 

[Dom Traynor]

Could someone give me an outline of the significance of yesterday’s results specific to Northern Ireland / the Six Counties / Norn Iron? From what I can see, if Sinn Fein have 7 MPs and the DUP, UUP & TUV also got 7, does that mean a dead heat and (laughs disbelievingly) the Nationalist & Unionist parties will have to co-operate?

This is assuming the 7 Unionists from the 3 separate parties would be united.

And is there any chance of the Alliance and / or SDLP MPs would go into coalition with SF, thus giving them a majority?

I seem to recall that some time ago, the post of First Minister was filled by a Unionist and Deputy First Minister by a Shinner, even though the job titles were purely symbolic and didn’t imply any seniority of the first over the second - but had been created simply so that Unionists wouldn’t lose their shit cos SF were in charge… was this after the 2019 election and had there been a ‘dead heat’ as it appears to me has happened now?

Any answers gratefully received; my
partner’s mum is from Ireland, an ardent Nationalist, in her 90s, very well-read and well-informed about Irish politics and history.

So I like to try to hold my end up (as it were) when we’re chatting about Ireland - in between blasting out rebel songs at top volume and annoying the neighbours, as she sometimes refuses to wear her hearing aid

Um this was about elections to the UK parliament, elections for the Northern Island Assembly are a separate thing.

 

[N_igma]

Could someone give me an outline of the significance of yesterday’s results specific to Northern Ireland / the Six Counties / Norn Iron? From what I can see, if Sinn Fein have 7 MPs and the DUP, UUP & TUV also got 7, does that mean a dead heat and (laughs disbelievingly) the Nationalist & Unionist parties will have to co-operate?

This is assuming the 7 Unionists from the 3 separate parties would be united.

And is there any chance of the Alliance and / or SDLP MPs would go into coalition with SF, thus giving them a majority?

I seem to recall that some time ago, the post of First Minister was filled by a Unionist and Deputy First Minister by a Shinner, even though the job titles were purely symbolic and didn’t imply any seniority of the first over the second - but had been created simply so that Unionists wouldn’t lose their shit cos SF were in charge… was this after the 2019 election and had there been a ‘dead heat’ as it appears to me has happened now?

Any answers gratefully received; my
partner’s mum is from Ireland, an ardent Nationalist, in her 90s, very well-read and well-informed about Irish politics and history.

So I like to try to hold my end up (as it were) when we’re chatting about Ireland - in between blasting out rebel songs at top volume and annoying the neighbours, as she sometimes refuses to wear her hearing aid

I think you are confusing the devolved government with elections to UK Parliament. SF are an abstentionist party so they don’t take their seats. Although one ramification of that is that 326 isn’t the actual number you need to form a majority in the UK, depending on how many seats SF win.

As for the devolved Stormont government, N.Ireland has a system to government unlike anywhere else in the UK. We have a consociational system, or mandatory coalition, where all parties who win a certain number of seats in the Assembly elections get a place on the Executive. This mandatory coalition system has resulted in Stormont collapsing sometimes when one party pulls out. Although I do believe there are moves in place to prevent that in the future.

SF are the largest party in the North after the last council, assembly and general elections so the call for a border poll will only get louder and louder.

Incidentally, Ben Lowry is a sectarian, entitled, scumbag.

 

[scalyboy]

I think you are confusing the devolved government with elections to UK Parliament. SF are an abstentionist party so they don’t take their seats. Although one ramification of that is that 326 isn’t the actual number you need to form a majority in the UK, depending on how many seats SF win.

As for the devolved Stormont government, N.Ireland has a system to government unlike anywhere else in the UK. We have a consociational system, or mandatory coalition, where all parties who win a certain number of seats in the Assembly elections get a place on the Executive. This mandatory coalition system has resulted in Stormont collapsing sometimes when one party pulls out. Although I do believe there are moves in place to prevent that in the future.

SF are the largest party in the North after the last council, assembly and general elections so the call for a border poll will only get louder and louder.

Incidentally, Ben Lowry is a sectarian, entitled, scumbag.

Thanks for this, very helpful.

I had assumed Stormont was a devolved government just the same as Wales's and Scotland's (and what was called the Welsh Assembly until 2020 but is now a Parliament, presumably has lesser powers than the Scottish Parliament who have enabled free prescriptions and no HE tuition fees etc?)

So although Stormont is shorthand for the Northern Ireland Assembly, from what you've just explained, it is quite different to these other two. with its mandatory coalition. This just underlines how different N.I. is from the rest of the UK, despite what bowler-hatted Orange people may insist, and doesn't really belong there.

I find world affairs pretty depressing and likely to stay that way (Gaza, Palestine overall, Ukraine, DR Congo, the Middle East generally, Tibet etc etc), and sometimes it's hard not to think the world is heading straight down to hell in a mobile carsey.

But a little glint of hope is the possibility of a united Ireland in my lifetime, despite my advancing years. It would be wonderful if a border poll took place (and the result went the right way) during Mrs scaly's Mum's lifetime, although she is getting on a bit in years.

PS Wholeheartedly agree with your description of Ben Lowry. I first read his deranged Belfast News Letter articles on a Northern Ireland subReddit; there were many scathing comments, but my favourite was "away to fuck with your Sir and Lady, this isn't Downton Abbey"

 

[PR1Berske]

Jim Allister in North Antrim has, by one measure, ended 50 years of Paisley 's at Westminster, though given how he created his own party in protest at the DUP not being democratically unionist enough, and his speech on the first day of Stormont's return, he is very much in the Paisley tradition. Expect fireworks.

North Down is a peculiar place. Unionist though UUP for years until Lady Sylvia left and she held on as an independent. Alliance took it in 2019, now another independent unionist has it.