Non-aligned far lefties, align yourselves here

[articul8]

Mind you the ridicule you got from a Workers Power bloke over your articulation of anarchism doesn't give me much hope for you sunshine.

as I'm not an anarchist (strictu sensu) I don't give a flying fuck!

Now why don't you let us know how many members the CPGB (M-L) has?

 

[phildwyer]

ha ha

And a running hyena of imperialism, apparently.

 

[bolshyvic]

I'm a Marxist, more Gramsci than Trostsky these days, and disappointed there isn't a democratic, inclusive, broad-based, principled working class organisation that I could feel at home in.

 

[Ryazan]

as I'm not an anarchist (strictu sensu) I don't give a flying fuck!

Now why don't you let us know how many members the CPGB (M-L) has?

Ask Scargill.

 

[netbob]

i don't think i know what i am. the anarchists tell me i don't know enough to be an anarchist, the far lefties think i'm a middle class liberal, the liberals i know think i'm a naive lefty idealist with dangerously anarchist leanings. i'm definitely to the left of any political party with seats in the uk.

in the political compass thigns i always end up in the bottom left though, even if no-one wants me in their group and i don't like aligning myself with other people's ideas.

IMO, that is the biggest historical problem of the British left. It spends more energy analysing and atomising it's self than it does in promoting the greater good.

 

[treelover]

a bit like me then,

and disappointed there isn't a democratic, inclusive, broad-based, principled working class organisation that I could feel at home in.

 

[foggypane]

i don't think i know what i am. the anarchists tell me i don't know enough to be an anarchist, the far lefties think i'm a middle class liberal, the liberals i know think i'm a naive lefty idealist with dangerously anarchist leanings. i'm definitely to the left of any political party with seats in the uk.

in the political compass thigns i always end up in the bottom left though, even if no-one wants me in their group and i don't like aligning myself with other people's ideas.

Are you me?

 

[Crispy]

No he's me, and so's my wife!

 

[bluestreak]

maybe there's a future in some sort of unaligned-anarcho-left support group. seems like the numbers are on our side.

we promise no doctrine, no bickering about obscure marxists, no party line, no leaders, no real policy other than "down with this sort of thing".

 

[Ryazan]

maybe there's a future in some sort of unaligned-anarcho-left support group. seems like the numbers are on our side.

we promise no doctrine, no bickering about obscure marxists, no party line, no leaders, no real policy other than "down with this sort of thing".

Rock on!

 

[treelover]

Would have been a few more before today

maybe there's a future in some sort of unaligned-anarcho-left support group. seems like the numbers are on our side.

edited, erm, genuine error,

 

[Ryazan]

Tolling is good for you.

 

[bolshyvic]

Sometimes I think we on the left have missed a trick in not asserting the moral force of our position. We get so wound up amongst ourselves about what Lenin said to Trotsky on the question of social democracy in 1917 that we miss the most compelling aspect of demands for socialism: it is right

I can't remember a campaign on the left that was FOR something yet everyone who ever became a socialist did so not because they had economic concerns over the expropriation of surplus value but because they stood for good things on principle: social justice, equality, freedom, democracy, education, welfare, peace.

We need to get away from organisational in-fighting and sectarian squabbles and start ceating an ideological environment in which socialism can take root and part of that is demonising capitalism as an evil, wicked and cruel system.

In that sense I think I stand in the tradition of moral force Chartism although I know there is a role for the physical force wing too.

 

[Crispy]

In that sense I think I stand in the tradition of moral force Chartism although I know there is a role for the physical force wing too.

(provisional group)
(non-firearm squad)

 

[TeeJay]

Non-aligned Marxist here.

Who likes Galloway?

 

[phildwyer]

Who likes Galloway?

Well, I admire his indefatigibility.

 

[bluestreak]

Would have been a few more before today

that shower? they don't like our types. far too liberal, unable to quote vast swathes of irrelevant bollocks, too prone to actually getting off our arses.

 

[Crispy]

Well, I admire his indefatigibility.

 

[montevideo]

I'm not actively aligned with any organisation

I would describe myself as being on the far left and as a marxist.

I tend to agree with a lot of the political positions taken up by the SP (although they are a bit formalistic and abstract on the national question IMO). I'm not to keen on its dogmatic air of superiority and automatic dismissal of other left forces though. And it can also adopt a gratingly workerist stance.

I'm interested in left communist/anarchist/libertarian etc traditions which take class struggle seriously, not as a daddy-funded gap year in which to smoke dope and not wash.

this applies to a lot of class strugglists as well, more than you realise.

 

[In Bloom]

maybe there's a future in some sort of unaligned-anarcho-left support group. seems like the numbers are on our side.

we promise no doctrine, no bickering about obscure marxists, no party line, no leaders, no real policy other than "down with this sort of thing".

You could always just read a few books and make your bloody mind up instead of this constant vacilitating

Seriously, it really does my head in when people go about saying "I'm non-ideological, me!" As if that means anything whatsoever. Has it ever occurred to the people who say this that maybe concepts like right wing/left wing exist because any coherent analysis involves one idea flowing from another? You can't treat each political idea in isolation.

ETA: Not meant to be directed at bluestreak in particular, mind, just generally rambling around the point

 

[articul8]

this applies to a lot of class strugglists as well, more than you realise.

really?

 

[Idaho]

maybe there's a future in some sort of unaligned-anarcho-left support group. seems like the numbers are on our side.

we promise no doctrine, no bickering about obscure marxists, no party line, no leaders, no real policy other than "down with this sort of thing".

Ok - I'm in. Do you have a monthly glossy magazine that I can leave on my coffee table to show my alliegance?

 

[montevideo]

really?

general rule, aye.

 

[Brainaddict]

i don't think i know what i am. the anarchists tell me i don't know enough to be an anarchist, the far lefties think i'm a middle class liberal, the liberals i know think i'm a naive lefty idealist with dangerously anarchist leanings. i'm definitely to the left of any political party with seats in the uk.

This is similar to my situation, though my not being an anarchist has more to do with not wanting to be one than being told I can't be one

 

[Ryazan]

You could always just read a few books and make your bloody mind up instead of this constant vacilitating

Seriously, it really does my head in when people go about saying "I'm non-ideological, me!" As if that means anything whatsoever. Has it ever occurred to the people who say this that maybe concepts like right wing/left wing exist because any coherent analysis involves one idea flowing from another? You can't treat each political idea in isolation.

ETA: Not meant to be directed at bluestreak in particular, mind, just generally rambling around the point

Still got some left-wing oriented questions to answer on another thread, if you are up to it.

 

[Brainaddict]

maybe there's a future in some sort of unaligned-anarcho-left support group. seems like the numbers are on our side.

we promise no doctrine, no bickering about obscure marxists, no party line, no leaders, no real policy other than "down with this sort of thing".

Can't tell how serious this suggestion was, but I think I decided a while ago to give up on trying to find a bunch of people I agree with ideologically - because then when you start to diverge (as everyone eventually does) it descends into bickering over the minutae of ideology.

I'd be more interested in working on specific campaigns - for instance I sometimes think there should be a simple, narrow campaign for the separation of corporate and state power, aimed at doing this with legislation within our lifetimes. To most 'liberals' that would require too much adjustment of the machinery of government, to most 'radicals' it would be an unacceptable legitimisation of state power (and besides, they tell you, the capitalist class would never let you succeed - Marxism 101 innit? ). That's just an example, but whenever I think of something I'd really like to campaign on I run into this problem.

I don't necessarily have to agree with everything those I'm campaigning with believe in - just agree on the principles of the campaign. Unfortunately it seems that woolly 'liberals' dont' mind doing this (but never campaign on anything radical enough) but far leftists usually don't like to work with people unless they're ideologically 'sound'. Which tends to leave me with no one to campaign with. Which is a bit of a shame, cos then I end up sitting on my arse doing nothing and feeling like a hypocrite...

 

[Crispy]

maybe there's a future in some sort of unaligned-anarcho-left support group. seems like the numbers are on our side.

You're kinda posting on one aintcha?

 

[Crispy]

Which tends to leave me with no one to campaign with. Which is a bit of a shame, cos then I end up sitting on my arse doing nothing and feeling like a hypocrite...

*points* - You're just lazy

But seriously, I sometimes feel the same way. I'd like to join your campaign by the way!

 

[In Bloom]

Still got some left-wing oriented questions to answer on another thread, if you are up to it.

Which ones? I have a tendancy to collapse from exhaustion/drunkeness part way through your interminable interrogations

 

[nino_savatte]

Non-aligned Marxist here.

You what? After all the the things you've said about Marxism? You're more of an apologist for ID and other forms of crackpot Christian cod science.