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Non-aligned far lefties, align yourselves here

In Bloom said:
Which ones? I have a tendancy to collapse from exhaustion/drunkeness part way through your interminable interrogations :p

Not interrogations. Just straightforward questions from a an ordinary bloke to a class stuggle anarchist revolutionary.
 
Ryazan said:
Not interrogations. Just straightforward questions from a an ordinary bloke to a class stuggle anarchist revolutionary.
Your questions are rarely straightforward, usually require several paragraphs to answer and are usually designed to trap people into saying something you can throw back in their face later. Straightforward my arse :rolleyes:

And as for "ordinary bloke," I fail to see quite how a self-described Marxist-Leninist is anymore ordinary than your average anarchist.
 
bluestreak said:
maybe there's a future in some sort of unaligned-anarcho-left support group. seems like the numbers are on our side.

we promise no doctrine, no bickering about obscure marxists, no party line, no leaders, no real policy other than "down with this sort of thing".


I'd join!

Although I don't join things.

Which is probably what most of the potential members would say.

So membership may become a bit of an issue ....
 
In Bloom said:
Your questions are rarely straightforward, usually require several paragraphs to answer and are usually designed to trap people into saying something you can throw back in their face later. Straightforward my arse :rolleyes:

And as for "ordinary bloke," I fail to see quite how a self-described Marxist-Leninist is anymore ordinary than your average anarchist.

I am not a Marxist-Leninist. I was taking the piss with the CPGB (M-L). Stalin aint my cup of tea. And as for your paranoia, I am nto trying to trap you, just wondering what your views are on Anarchist-Communists in 1917. And some other stuff.

And besides, I dislike this habit of people who ascribe, or appear to ascribe to a perticular kind of radical politics and then do so for one purpose being to only set yourself apart from others, against being "ordinary". Most people I have met involved in left politics are, well just ordninary. Perhaps you are a dilletante? ;)
 
bolshyvic said:
Sometimes I think we on the left have missed a trick in not asserting the moral force of our position. We get so wound up amongst ourselves about what Lenin said to Trotsky on the question of social democracy in 1917 that we miss the most compelling aspect of demands for socialism: it is right

I can't remember a campaign on the left that was FOR something yet everyone who ever became a socialist did so not because they had economic concerns over the expropriation of surplus value but because they stood for good things on principle: social justice, equality, freedom, democracy, education, welfare, peace.

We need to get away from organisational in-fighting and sectarian squabbles and start ceating an ideological environment in which socialism can take root and part of that is demonising capitalism as an evil, wicked and cruel system.

In that sense I think I stand in the tradition of moral force Chartism although I know there is a role for the physical force wing too.
the bloody moral forcists never had any bloody gumption or staying power tho. Lovett only became a legend after being locked up because the state claimed he was espousing revolution. Gimme o'Connor & O'Brien any day over those without the staying power, like Lovett and and Attwood. And you may get wound up arguing about trotsky - but that's just another point where tha s going wrong!

Peacefully where we may. Forceably where we must.
 
Brainaddict said:
Not sure if I can get a sensible response to a question like this, but who here would describe themselves as far left (ish), but not belonging to (in reality or in spirit) any political group or nameable creed?

I would, hence the question, and I from time to time think there must be quite a few others on here - perhaps those who don't post so much in the politics forums.

I leave the definition of 'far left (ish)' to your own discretion :)

I'm a non-aligned Marxist now!
 
Brainaddict said:
Can't tell how serious this suggestion was, but I think I decided a while ago to give up on trying to find a bunch of people I agree with ideologically - because then when you start to diverge (as everyone eventually does) it descends into bickering over the minutae of ideology.

I'd be more interested in working on specific campaigns - for instance I sometimes think there should be a simple, narrow campaign for the separation of corporate and state power, aimed at doing this with legislation within our lifetimes.
I also think your choice of campaign is a really good one and that in many ways, smaller specifically pointed campaigns are the way to go - as you say they're much more likely to actually achieve their aims (in our lifetimes or the next) than the overall reorganisation of society and have less risk of factions being split as time goes on because it's about one or only a few issues. Don't these campaigns happen though? Or are the main ones the more wooley liberal ones you mention? For example, I really could have/could get involved with something to do with opposing foundation trusts and the increasing privitisation of the NHS with some bite, but I don't really know where to start (though admittedly I also haven't really looked too hard :oops: )

I do know that I could do with being far more educated about my beliefs - they're definately left and democratic and many of my views do have good grounding rather than just ideals, but a conversation with a libertarian friend the other day really showed me that perhaps I need a little more. Also I know that in some ways I'm both an idealist and a cynic, and I find it difficult to believe that things can happen to make things change.

On top of that, and perhaps more pertinently, I'm not as confident as I probably sometimes seem, and there's a big part of me which is too shy (for want of a better word) to get more involved in politics. Again it's related to feeling I don't know enough, and that I don't know where the hell the start. Which is why I think my feminism (at present) is more related to ideas that "if I can slightly change one person's views and highlight a bit of inequality which they weren't aware of when talking to them, then talking about it is worth it". Same with the mental health system and opposing the complete adherence to the medical model - I will end up working as part of the established system but I'd want to take anti-psychiatry opinions with me into it to some extent.

By the way, for some reason I feel really stupid for posting all of this, which just shows how non-confident I am in this area. :oops:
 
mattkidd12 said:
I'm a non-aligned Marxist now!
same here, tho' I'm glad to say my departure from my last political organisation wasn't caused by some wanker grassing me to the hierarchy, so you have my sympathy
 
Well you shouldn't Agent, its great to see more posts that don't sound as if they have the 'truth' that everyone must adhere to, btw, here are some campaigns that are generally independent(though attempts are being made to dominate KONP)

stopping NHS privatisation

Keep our NHS Public
http://www.keepournhspublic.com/index.php

fighting disability benefit cuts

SWAN
http://www.swansheffield.org.uk

challenging council housing priv, etc,
Defend Council Housing

http://www.defendcouncilhousing.org.uk/dch/


Agent Sparrow:By the way, for some reason I feel really stupid for posting all of this, which just shows how non-confident I am in this area.

I really could have/could get involved with something to do with opposing foundation trusts and the increasing privitisation of the NHS with some bite, but I don't really know where to start (though admittedly I also haven't really looked too hard )
 
treelover said:
Well you shouldn't Agent, its great to see more posts that don't sound as if they have the 'truth' that everyone must adhere to, btw, here are some campaigns that are generally independent(though attempts are being made to dominate KONP)

stopping NHS privatisation

Keep our NHS Public
http://www.keepournhspublic.com/index.php

fighting disability benefit cuts

SWAN
http://www.swansheffield.org.uk

challenging council housing priv, etc,
Defend Council Housing

http://www.defendcouncilhousing.org.uk/dch/
Thank you treelover - I shall certainly look into those links when I've got a bit more time. :)

I guess part of getting over my lack of confidence is to a) jsut ask if I don't know something, and b) start doing.
 
this is quite common, an i have to say impo, women express it more than men both here and offline. I'm not sure of the gender issue, but i do think we have had a depoliticised culture for so long that we have to relearn the lexicon and the language of radical or even progressive politics(and of course the history*) all over again. We certainly have to go back to first principles, eg 'love thy neighbour'

though, imo textdwelling on dead russians may not be of too much use....
 
In Bloom said:
You could always just read a few books and make your bloody mind up instead of this constant vacilitating :p ;)

Seriously, it really does my head in when people go about saying "I'm non-ideological, me!" As if that means anything whatsoever. Has it ever occurred to the people who say this that maybe concepts like right wing/left wing exist because any coherent analysis involves one idea flowing from another? You can't treat each political idea in isolation.

ETA: Not meant to be directed at bluestreak in particular, mind, just generally rambling around the point ;)

why make up my mind and align myself to something that might not fit? that's the point, innit. i've read a fuck of a lot of books ni my time and still haven't found something i can happily be niched into. and no matter how much i read there's still someone on p+p who will tell me i don't have a right to an opinion because i haven't read something else. so you know what, i'm going to keep my opinions, which are ever evolving and based on all available knowledge at the time, as well as my instincts for what i think is best for people, and what is right. i did half my degree in ethics FFS that's a lot of dan reading, but that isn't enough for some people!

as for ideas in isolation, i see your point as well, but the trouble is that big-picturing is exhausting. trying to bring down the entire edifice of international capitalism is like trying to fuck a porcupine... it's one prick working against millions. but smaller campaigns are more achievable, less exhausting.
 
Tony Blair must be quaking in his boots seeing how well organised the far left is in this country.So many people on u75 seem to hate him,but you just can't get it together,can you?
 
tbaldwin said:
Tony Blair must be quaking in his boots seeing how well organised the far left is in this country.So many people on u75 seem to hate him,but you just can't get it together,can you?
Who gives a fuck about Blair? Disposable puppet that he is :)
 
tbaldwin said:
Tony Blair must be quaking in his boots seeing how well organised the far left is in this country.So many people on u75 seem to hate him,but you just can't get it together,can you?
Strange post. This thread is, by definition pretty much, for discussing the unorganised left (see title for clues). Your wibbling on about how unorganised the left is on the basis of posts here is therefore somewhat random.
 
Brainaddict said:
Strange post. This thread is, by definition pretty much, for discussing the unorganised left (see title for clues). Your wibbling on about how unorganised the left is on the basis of posts here is therefore somewhat random.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for coherence out of tbaldwin, if I were you.
 
Crispy said:
*points* - You're just lazy :p

But seriously, I sometimes feel the same way. I'd like to join your campaign by the way!
y'know sometimes I fear it is just laziness. or partly anyway. but then when I think about what I actually want to do I can't find any group going anywhere near the same direction as me.
 
Brainaddict said:
Strange post. This thread is, by definition pretty much, for discussing the unorganised left (see title for clues). Your wibbling on about how unorganised the left is on the basis of posts here is therefore somewhat random.


But why are the left so disorganised? RESPECT are the largest (LEFT) Group and just look how much you all like them.....
 
tbaldwin said:
But why are the left so disorganised?

I'd like to think it's because, by definition, going against the status quo requires an openess of mind - one that leads to a wide range of opinions, some of which inevitably clash.
 
Crispy said:
I'd like to think it's because, by definition, going against the status quo requires an openess of mind - one that leads to a wide range of opinions, some of which inevitably clash.
However, more likely it's because the sizeable organisations which would have contained a lot of far leftists have all imploded (Communist Party) or become totally uninhabitable (Labour).
 
Idaho said:
Ok - I'm in. Do you have a monthly glossy magazine that I can leave on my coffee table to show my alliegance?
Ikea-ist :mad:

(sorry, i'm trying to take over Pickman's anarcho-rage thing now he's departed. I'm not very good at it yet - any tips?)
 
it's easy. think embittered goth pedant.

why is the left so disorganised? i think it's because we're idealists. we've set ourselves up in opposition to the status quo and inside each of us lurks an ideal world that we're kind of hoping for. trouble is, ideal worlds are as unique as people dreaming of them. so we're fine on general terms: capitalism is bad, destroying the environment is bad etc. but when talk terms to what happens when everythign is fixed suddenly we all want different things. and stick three lefties together and get em to talk politics and eventually talk will turn to after the revolution... then the arguments begin.
 
4thwrite said:
Ikea-ist :mad:

(sorry, i'm trying to take over Pickman's anarcho-rage thing now he's departed. I'm not very good at it yet - any tips?)

He's departed? Where did he go?
 
bluestreak said:
it's easy. think embittered goth pedant.

why is the left so disorganised? i think it's because we're idealists. we've set ourselves up in opposition to the status quo and inside each of us lurks an ideal world that we're kind of hoping for. trouble is, ideal worlds are as unique as people dreaming of them. so we're fine on general terms: capitalism is bad, destroying the environment is bad etc. but when talk terms to what happens when everythign is fixed suddenly we all want different things. and stick three lefties together and get em to talk politics and eventually talk will turn to after the revolution... then the arguments begin.

Very true. And I even disagree about revolutions :D
 
Idaho said:
He's departed? Where did he go?
in the fallout from the Urban v Tolling Gang blood feud. If you want details, and have time on your hands, its coveredin the 'whats outside galloways gaff, locked thread in UK politics
 
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