New Tommy Sheridan video.

[Bear]

I understand that to be the case.

So why are they calling on him to resign? Sure, he left the SSP, but if he resigned his seat its not like the voters would get the chance to decide if they want to re-elect him.

 

[danny la rouge]

So why are they calling on him to resign?

Presumably their argument would be that the voters voted SSP, that they were returned as part of the SSP list, and that the places should be taken by SSP candidates.

It could be argued that the voters voted for the Sheridan-led SSP, though, and that the two factions are new entities, not the SSP continuing and 'Solidarity' seceding.

 

[tollbar]

The problem with that is that in the South all the people below Byrne on the list jumped ship.

 

[danny la rouge]

Did they?

Oh dear.

 

[JoePolitix]

Presumably their argument would be that the voters voted SSP, that they were returned as part of the SSP list, and that the places should be taken by SSP candidates.

It could be argued that the voters voted for the Sheridan-led SSP, though, and that the two factions are new entities, not the SSP continuing and 'Solidarity' seceding.

True, its a weak argument. By the same token Galloway should have been forced to resign after he was expelled from the Labour Party on the grounds that his constituents voted him in on a Labour ticket.

Another reason the SSP leadership gave for calling for Sheriden & Byrne's resignations was that this “would at least limit the damage that this sorry affair is inflicting on Scottish politics and politicians in general”. I have to say that I wasn't aware that Trotskyists tended to be concerned about their factional rivals bringing capitalist politicians into disrespute. These sentiments were repeated in the Sun and the News of the World.

Depressing.

 

[danny la rouge]

True, its a weak argument. By the same token Galloway should have been forced to resign after he was expelled from the Labour Party on the grounds that his constituents voted him in on a Labour ticket.

It isn't a strong argument. But it is stronger than the one in your analogy; a candidate elected by first past the post to a consituency can argue that it was a personal vote (although this is hardly ever actually true), but the list system in the Scottish Parliament can't really be said to be a personal vote. I'm not sure if you're resident in Scotland, Joe, but remember you get two votes in Scottish Parliament elections: one for a constituency and one for a list.

 

[JoePolitix]

It isn't a strong argument. But it is stronger than the one in your analogy; a candidate elected by first past the post to a consituency can argue that it was a personal vote (although this is hardly ever actually true), but the list system in the Scottish Parliament can't really be said to be a personal vote. I'm not sure if you're resident in Scotland, Joe, but remember you get two votes in Scottish Parliament elections: one for a constituency and one for a list.

Like I've pointed out before - despite my cravings for short bread, offal and heroin I'm not actually Scottish, I live in Bristol.

The distinction in an unimportant one imo because TS topped the SSP list so an endorsement of that list amounts to an endorsement of TS.

And at any rate the SSP don't seriously belief TS or RB will follow their call for them to resign - its just a cheap publicity stunt.

 

[danny la rouge]

Like I've pointed out before - despite my cravings for short bread, offal and heroin I'm not actually Scottish, I live in Bristol.

The distinction in an unimportant one imo because TS topped the SSP list so an endorsement of that list amounts to an endorsement of TS.

It is certainly the case that Sheridan's name was on the ballot paper as first in the list, and that Sheridan and the SSP were pretty synonymous. But the regional ("second") vote isn't a personal vote, it's a party vote. As the Greens knew and used to their advantage.

And at any rate the SSP don't seriously belief TS or RB will follow their call for them to resign - its just a cheap publicity stunt.

Of course they don't.

 

[nwnm]

It isn't a strong argument. But it is stronger than the one in your analogy; a candidate elected by first past the post to a consituency can argue that it was a personal vote (although this is hardly ever actually true), but the list system in the Scottish Parliament can't really be said to be a personal vote. I'm not sure if you're resident in Scotland, Joe, but remember you get two votes in Scottish Parliament elections: one for a constituency and one for a list.

The SSP were also on the ballot paper as 'Scottish Socialist Party/Tommy Sheridan' <similar to the early RESPECT outings where they were 'RESPECT/George Galloway'>. On that basis Sheridan could call for them to resign as they are no longer supporting him.......

 

[Fisher_Gate]

The SSP were also on the ballot paper as 'Scottish Socialist Party/Tommy Sheridan' <similar to the early RESPECT outings where they were 'RESPECT/George Galloway'>. On that basis Sheridan could call for them to resign as they are no longer supporting him.......

To be more precise the title on the ballot paper was:

"Scottish Socialist Party - Convener Tommy Sheridan"

Now remind me, how did he stop being Convenor in 2004?


Oh yes - HE RESIGNED!!

 

[nwnm]

and remind me the date they were elected?

 

[danny la rouge]

The SSP were also on the ballot paper as 'Scottish Socialist Party/Tommy Sheridan' <similar to the early RESPECT outings where they were 'RESPECT/George Galloway'>. On that basis Sheridan could call for them to resign as they are no longer supporting him.......

True. Although it didn't say "convener for life"...

 

[nwnm]

just convener at the time though

very well thought out article here by someone involved from the SWP...

http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=247&issue=112

 

[tollbar]

just convener at the time though

very well thought out article here by someone involved from the SWP...

http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=247&issue=112

Usual self serving pish.

For the record. The 'assault' on a pro Sheridan SWP member, which I assume is what Gonzalez is wittering about was a minor bit of argy bargy after a witness at the trial had suffered extreme provocation and the notes sent to pro Sheridanites in mailings xonsisted of one of the leading figures in the May NC disruption getting sent a leaflet for the Samaritans (foolishly in my view).

The truth is that the SWP failed continually to drag the majority of the SSP into their collection of fromts over the period they were involved with the party , seized the opportunity provided by the split to become the main organisational force in the Squalidarity lash-up and are now running around dreaming up with intellectual justifications for their actions.

 

[nwnm]

Usual self serving pish.

For the record. The 'assault' on a pro Sheridan SWP member, which I assume is what Gonzalez is wittering about was a minor bit of argy bargy after a witness at the trial had suffered extreme provocation and the notes sent to pro Sheridanites in mailings xonsisted of one of the leading figures in the May NC disruption getting sent a leaflet for the Samaritans (foolishly in my view).

The truth is that the SWP failed continually to drag the majority of the SSP into their collection of fromts over the period they were involved with the party , seized the opportunity provided by the split to become the main organisational force in the Squalidarity lash-up and are now running around dreaming up with intellectual justifications for their actions.

These 'fronts' would include the Stop the War Coalition, Make Poverty History and the 5,000 strong G8 Alternatives conference would they?

 

[JimPage]

Reports in papers today that SWP/Respect are to stand against Sheridan if he is charged with purgery

The SWP`s loyalty to Solidarity seems to have lasted about 3 weeks....

 

[JHE]

Reports in papers today that SWP/Respect are to stand against Sheridan if he is charged with purgery

The SWP`s loyalty to Solidarity seems to have lasted about 3 weeks....

...unless their electoral campaign is based around Free The Nipple Clamp One! or something similar.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Tommy Sheridan and George McNeilage - together on video at last

Scotland Today broadcast a "discussion" with the two of them last week - windows media format.

The written story is also worth reading if you can't get the video.

Asked why he did record it, Mr McNeilage said: "I recorded it because trust had broken down between me and Tommy, and he refused to meet other people in Pollok. These were the people who had created Tommy in the first place, who have probably put out in the region of a million leaflets in Pollok with his face on it. Tommy says this was recorded for The News of the World - this is nonsense. This is Tommy again with his big, bad Murdoch evil empire; Tommy sold his story..."

Mr Sheridan interrupted: "How much did you get, George?"

"...Tommy sold his story..."

Again he said: "How much did you get, George?"

"Sorry, hold on Tam."

"£20,000," said Sheridan.

"If you let me finish, Tommy.."

"Well", said McNeilage "I'll tell you what; I'm going to tell you what I got the minute you put your hand up and admit to the whole of Scotland that you have been a liar...I recorded it for... I recorded it for the reasons I've already given you. Tommy knows it's bona fide, I know it's bona fide; everyone who has heard it on The News of the World website knows..."

Tommy Sheridan said: "Yeah, everybody on your side, George. Everybody on The News of the World side, on The Sun side, Murdoch side, the side that you're on, my friend. ""​

It's quite civilised, except for Mr Sheridan constantly talking over Mr McNeilage, who actually maintains a lot of dignity throughout.

For the record, neither was wearing a jacket and tie. Mr McNeilage had on a nice blue checked shirt, while Mr Sheridan sported a natty peach coloured top.

Nice.

 

[audiotech]

Reports in papers today that SWP/Respect are to stand against Sheridan if he is charged with purgery

The SWP`s loyalty to Solidarity seems to have lasted about 3 weeks....

Which papers?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Which papers?

This paper.

 

[audiotech]

Mr McNeilage, who actually maintains a lot of dignity throughout.

All £20,000 of it from a tabloid rag that Mr McNeilage tried to hide it appears.

 

[audiotech]

This paper.

ta.

 

[tollbar]

...unless their electoral campaign is based around Free The Nipple Clamp One! or something similar.

I suppose if Byrne gets sent down her band of followers led by the odious Jim Byrne could launch a campaign with the slogan 'her only crime was loyalty'.

Should do her the world of good with the Orange element in Ayrshire.

 

[tollbar]

All £20,000 of it from a tabloid rag that Mr McNeilage tried to hide it appears.

The same tabloid rag that 'two Jeeps' Sheridan was going to do a deal with in 1999.

Until he got a better offer from the Record.

 

[audiotech]

The same tabloid rag that 'two Jeeps' Sheridan was going to do a deal with in 1999.

Until he got a better offer from the Record.

Two rags don't make it right.