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New Labour government - legislative agenda

Their decision to vote for Starmer and Reeves is on them.
You were questioning the suggestion that there were no alternatives, for anyone wanting the previous government out. Were the alternatives to voting for Starmer secret ones? We can only really assume it's that, or that you would have preferred the conservatives to stay in.
 
You were questioning the suggestion that there were no alternatives, for anyone wanting the previous government out. Were the alternatives to voting for Starmer secret ones? We can only really assume it's that, or that you would have preferred the conservatives to stay in.

Can’t you also conclude like Silas Loom that it’s pointless talking to bitter ideologues?
 
You were questioning the suggestion that there were no alternatives, for anyone wanting the previous government out. Were the alternatives to voting for Starmer secret ones? We can only really assume it's that, or that you would have preferred the conservatives to stay in.
How many of you constitute this we?
 
Here’s a further update on how Starmer and Reeves are taking the tough decisions we need to make Britain a better place.

Disabled pensioners will bear the worst brunt of the WFA cut:



780,000 of the poorest pensioners - who are entitled to pension credit but don’t claim it - are also losing the WFA plunging them into deeper poverty. As predicted those who can’t complete the form or do not want the perceived stigma of claiming benefit are going to have a cold winter:



If you voted Labour and aren’t ashamed, you should be.

Why should someone be ashamed of voting for the Labour Party at the General Election, when cutting the Winter Fuel Allowance was not in the Manifesto? Which party did you vote for?
 
Why should someone be ashamed of voting for the Labour Party at the General Election, when cutting the Winter Fuel Allowance was not in the Manifesto? Which party did you vote for?

Starmer witchhunted the left, dumped every policy position he’d stood for leader on and committed to Tory spending plans, all before the election. How many more clues did you need?
 
Starmer witchhunted the left, dumped every policy position he’d stood for leader on and committed to Tory spending plans, all before the election. How many more clues did you need?
Yes, he did those things, but you wrote that people should be ashmed of voting Labour because of the abolition of the Winter Fuel Allowance. No-one predicted that it would be cut. Which party did you vote for?
 
Yes, he did those things, but you wrote that people should be ashmed of voting Labour because of the abolition of the Winter Fuel Allowance. No-one predicted that it would be cut.

All those who voted for Starmer are just as culpable as those who vote Tory and then pretend the decisions they take aren’t on them

Which party did you vote for?

Spunking cock.
 
Indeed, it would all be soooooo much better now if only the tories had got in again :rolleyes:

But it's not only people who voted labour who should be ashamed. It's the people who didn't vote, and those who voted lib dem and green, and particularly the smug gits who voted for parties like TUSC who had no chance of getting in. THEY'RE ALL RESPONSIBLE BECAUSE THEY ALL LET LABOUR WIN :mad:

Exactly. By all means challenge anyone cheerleading for labour at this point. But the voting is choosing from a menu of various flavours of shit. And not voting is getting the shit someone else has chosen for you.
 
Possibly, but always best to be wary of the tories' (both colours) spin about pensioners getting "£900 more this year"; that figure can only be correct for the relatively small cohort of those reaching pensionable age after 2016 and receiving the full amount of New State Pension. FoI figures show that to be about 1.5m out of a pensioner population of nearly 13m.

Most pensioners are on the lower, old basic state pension including my old Mum who gets £740 to live on every 4 weeks. The % increases might sound OK, but they're on very low base amounts. Don't forget the UK state pays it's retired workers the lowest % of average earnings of all 24 OECD nations.
Can't remember if I've said this elsewhere in this thread, but I think this point is crucial to understanding the impact of the cost of living crisis on people on benefits/people in low-paid employment.

I think politicians and bosses overlook the kind of 'compound interest' type effect that inflation/below inflation benefits/wage rises have had over the past couple of decades, not to mention wages freezes. Wages have stagnated over the past couple of decades for low-paid people. And the likes of bosses and politicians don't really have a clue, because in real-terms they've done well.

For example, politicians. I had a vague idea that MP salaries were around £73k, but then around the time of the election I read they were now £91k, but back in 2004, an MP's basic salary was £57,485.

Salaries of members of the United Kingdom Parliament - Wikipedia

So just looking at a couple of recent years:

If, in 2022, you were earning £84,144 and received a 2.1% payrise, you'd get an extra £2,440 in 2023, so...

In 2023, you'd be earning £86,584,, and if you then got a 5.5% pay rise, you get another £4,762 pounds extra.

So in 2024 you now get £91,346. And in the space of two years, your income has gone up £7,202.


Meanwhile, if you're now on £740 every four weeks, so £9,620 a year, and if you'd had the same increases...

In 2023, you'd have been on £9,090, so a 5.5% increase would have meant an additional £530 in the next year.

In 2022, you'd have been on £8,899, so a 2.1% increase would have meant an additional £191 a year.

So in the space of two years, your income, with same percentage increases, means your income has gone up a grand total of £721 - versus the £7,202 increase in income for a well-paid MP.


So the rich do just get richer and richer, in comparison to poor people. Those in positions of power and authority really don't have a clue how this has impacted on the lives of people at the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum.

(And that's before you take into account bosses awarded themselves big bonuses, and how 'benchmarking' at the boss end of the spectrum always ends up with an upward spiral as CEO A compares themself to CEO B, who earns more, so CEO persuades the board to rubber stamp a package increase, then CEO C does likewise, as does CEO D, then CEO A thinks their package is out of whack as compared to CEO D, then the merry-go-round of inflated base pay and bonuses starts all over again. Meanwhile, they're all in a cost-cutting frenzy, laying staff off to increase profits, getting existing staff to do more for the same or less pay, trying to make staff feel like they're lucky to have a shitty low-paying job.)
 
remember when there were posts about all Brexit voters being thick, racist, little Englanders. let’s not use that same tack with labour voters. just a thought like.
There's the people who voted Labour because they admired starmer, something like 1% of the total. Not sure if they're stupid, credulous, fuckwitted or whatnot but they're certainly not the sharpest tools on the box
 
remember when there were posts about all Brexit voters being thick, racist, little Englanders. let’s not use that same tack with labour voters. just a thought like.
To be honest I voted Labour once, in the 1990 local elections in Haringey. I realised my mistake quickly as the council landed us with the highest poll tax in the land, £508.34 in 1990/91. I expect a large number of the 2024 Labour voters will feel as I did and make sure they don't repeat the error
 
Lost a seat in Hackney to the Greens last night

Stoke Newington (Hackney) council by-election result:GRN: 53.0% (+19.5)LAB: 40.0% (-19.2)LDEM: 3.3% (+3.3)CON: 3.1% (-4.1)IND: 0.5% (+0.5)
That's a rather big swing, although "Turnout for the by-election was 20.35 per cent, with 2,362 votes cast in total," so it's a relatively large amount of a relatively small amount.

Stokey's got a Whole Foods* shop and is a bit organic/green/hippy.



(When I was squatting in Hackney in 2011, I happened to be passing that Whole Foods one day and a male staff there handed me a red rose - proper made my Saint Valentine's Day it did! :oops::D )
 
What has a disability got to do with it? Disability isn’t a proxy for poverty in the elderly. It imposes specific costs, which are met separately. But it doesn’t bear on winter fuel allowance.
The costs associated with disability aren't always met separately. In theory they should be, but they're not.

And arguably people with a disability is a proxy for poverty in the elderly, just as it's a proxy for poverty in working age people, because disabled people are much more likely to be unemployed or underemployed, and if they are unemployed/underemployed during their 'working lives' they will be less likely to have workplace pensions to top up the utterly shamefully meagre state pension.
 
That's a rather big swing, although "Turnout for the by-election was 20.35 per cent, with 2,362 votes cast in total," so it's a relatively large amount of a relatively small amount.

Stokey's got a Whole Foods* shop and is a bit organic/green/hippy.



(When I was squatting in Hackney in 2011, I happened to be passing that Whole Foods one and a male staff there handed me a red rose - proper made my Saint Valentine's Day it did! :oops::D )

The vote from Labour to Green changed in a relatively short amount of time as well, the previous Labour Councillor ( who resigned to take up another position ) had 66% of the vote in 2022.
 
Can I ask why?
You could just Google. Or have a bit of a think and use some common sense.

Elderly people often have conditions like arthritis, rheumatism, rheumatoid-arthritis, which are often made more painful by cold weather. I've known that since childhood, because of how it affected my grandma.

A quick Google throws up:

AgeUK:

"Winter illnesses​

In winter, cold weather and spending more time indoors mean illnesses spread more easily. These can impact our health whatever our age, but as we get older, our immune systems find it harder to fight off bugs. The good news is that there are things you can do to protect yourself and stay warm and well during the winter season...

They mention:

Bronchitis
Cold
Coronavirus - ie Covid-19 - they don't say so, but it's potentially fatal.
Flu - they don't specifically say so, but it's potentially fatal.
Gastroenteritis - norovirus known as winter vomiting bug.
Frostbite - "Frostbite occurs when skin becomes damaged by being exposed to freezing temperatures – usually below -0.55°C. It can affect any part of your body, but extremities – like the hands, feet and ears – are more likely to be affected." So can occur at just half a degree below freezing, not unusual temperatures in winter in the UK, especially in the North/Scotland.
Hypothermia - considered to be a medical emergency equivalent to stroke or a heart attack, so must be treated in hospital.
Pneumonia - "You’re more at risk of becoming seriously ill from pneumonia if you’re over 65 or if you have a heart or lung condition." - My paternal grandad actually died from pneumonia.



And then Which? repeats some of the above and adds a few more brought on by or exacerbated by cold temperatures:

Asthma, COPD and other respiratory illnesses
Joint pain, arthritis and Raynaud's syndrome - I'd already mentioned arthritis and rheumatism, but this adds Raynaud's Syndrome (painful condition that affects the extremities in cold weather)
Cardiovascular diseases such as heart disease and stroke - The British Heart Foundation says the cold can affect your circulation and put stress on your heart as a result of our bodies trying to hold onto our core heat and stay warm. This can be harder for those with an existing heart condition and - in the worst cases - can make the risk of stroke and heart attack greater, the charity says.
Cold, flu, etc.

 
Your translator is up the spout. The point was that older disabled people are very likely to have become disabled after a full working life and to have private pensions, savings, and equity.

Younger disabled people don’t have that financial independence, and as they reach middle age, perhaps outliving their primary carers, they are much more likely to be dependent on benefits and other kinds of public assistance.
Maybe some, but definitely not all. As explained previously, while some elderly people will have acquired age-related medical conditions/disabilities, many people who've been disabled throughout their lives or from a relatively early point in their 'working lives' won't have been able to earn/accrue generous private pension provision, because disabled people are much more likely to be unemployed or underemployed than non-disabled people throughout their 'working lives' and are therefore less likely to have private pensions, savings and equity.
 
The vote from Labour to Green changed in a relatively short amount of time as well, the previous Labour Councillor ( who resigned to take up another position ) had 66% of the vote in 2022.
I did wonder about previous results, but wasn't sufficiently inclined/motivated to look them up, so thanks for that. I'm vaguely aware that Hackney's long been a Labour stronghold, with Diane Abbott and Meg Hillier as MPs.

Just Googled to double-check whether Meg Hillier's still the MP for Hackney South, and saw that Meg Hiller was made a DBE/Dame in the 2021 birthday honours list, for political and parliamentary service.

Given that Dame Meg has only been an MP since 2005, it seems a bit off that Diane Abbott, MP for Hackney North, hasn't been bestowed with similar honours, having been elected an MP in 1987, and the first black woman MP to boot.

Has Diane Abbott been offered a damehood and refused it?

Otherwise, seems really 'off' for Dame Meg to have accepted such an honour, surely she should have said, Erm, Diane first, please.

 
My mam is 94. She has the heating on max all the time, whatever time of year, and is always cold. This is not an uncommon phenomenon amongst the elderly. Silas Loom, are you daft or just trolling here?
Also, there's lots of scientific data about women versus men feeling the cold at different temperatures.

Eg this old article popped up in a quick Google search, but there's been more recent articles about how temperatures in offices are generally set at levels which are comfortable for male employees, rather than women.

Air-conditioning: Why might women feel temperature differently from men?
 
As well as being morally, socially and medically indefensible for all the reasons stated above, the abolition of the universal winter fuel allowance speaks volumes about Starmer & co's ability to read the room - i.e. to actually do politics. It was always going to go this way, especially with no mention of it in their manifesto.

It is quite likely that we are one electoral term of a piss poor, unpopular Labour government away from a hard right Tory or Reform government. It doesn't have to be this way and I will be happy to be proved wrong.
 
Exactly. By all means challenge anyone cheerleading for labour at this point. But the voting is choosing from a menu of various flavours of shit. And not voting is getting the shit someone else has chosen for you.
It's not always as simple as that, though. In some constituencies, eg a Labour or Conservative stronghold, it doesn't really matter if you vote for the opposition party or if you abstain, it's not going to make a difference either way.

Being a woman, I appreciate how hard fought for my vote was, so I couldn't bring myself to abstain. But then again, I couldn't bring myself to vote for a Labour Party under Starmer (and other votes were problematic, because reasons), so I spoiled my ballot.

It wouldn't have mattered if I hadn't voted though. Except if 8k+ other voters hadn't voted, then my vote might've made a difference.
 
Starmer's a totally shit politician. That was clear before he became leader of the Labour party. He's also a total cunt. That became clear after he became leader of the Labour party. There were clues before of course, from his time as DPP.

The Labour party needs to break apart. It no longer serves any purpose at all. I didn't care who won the last election. Now, I'm wondering if I wouldn't rather have the other party of business still in power. This Labour are all the worst bits of the Tories with added authoritarianism.
 
As well as being morally, socially and medically indefensible for all the reasons stated above, the abolition of the universal winter fuel allowance speaks volumes about Starmer & co's ability to read the room - i.e. to actually do politics. It was always going to go this way, especially with no mention of it in their manifesto.

It is quite likely that we are one electoral term of a piss poor, unpopular Labour government away from a hard right Tory or Reform government. It doesn't have to be this way and I will be happy to be proved wrong.
Do you want the fake cunt party, or the real cunt party? If you're going to vote cunt, go full fucking cunt.
 
Starmer's a totally shit politician. That was clear before he became leader of the Labour party. He's also a total cunt. That became clear after he became leader of the Labour party. There were clues before of course, from his time as DPP.

The Labour party needs to break apart. It no longer serves any purpose at all. I didn't care who won the last election. Now, I'm wondering if I wouldn't rather have the other party of business still in power. This Labour are all the worst bits of the Tories with added authoritarianism.
I wouldn't go that far, but I'm not convinced Labour are much better, tbh.
 
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