Nazi Concentration Camps

[frogwoman]

thanks ymu.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I think its important to but i don't think it is appropriate to use pictures of those things in political arguments, because they deserve to shown some respect, and as i have just said, i think if you do that and so does the other side it sounds like the rediculous pissing match i have described in my post above ... and the victms deserve a bit more respect than that ...

I don't care if it seems inappropriate.

As for respect for the victims, I'm sure there is nothing they would want more than for their likenesses and their stories never to be forgotten.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Being abused does not justify becoming an abuser, however human, common and easily explicable that particular response is.

I agree. But that doesn't excuse your going on about the Naqba on this thread, when there are a dozen threads daily for you to vent your disapproval of Israel.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The camp victims were unable to fight back. But they've left us a weapon for fighting tyranny: their pictures.

 

[frogwoman]

ok yeh, so u dont care. well thats ok, Im just telling you what i think.

i also dont think it should be forgotten but i just found whoat you was both doing very distasteful. and it reminds me why i never go on these kinds of threads.

as you know im probably more sympathetic to israel in many ways coming from the background that i do.

i dont think using those pics in arguments as to what was the worst, is a way of ensuring that their memory lives on ... face it it is the internet those pics are gonna get desecrated by somebody and i dont think that if my family was killed i would want the picture being used in a political argument about whether it was worse than someone else's family dying.

 

[frogwoman]

I agree. But that doesn't excuse your going on about the Naqba on this thread, when there are a dozen threads daily for you to vent your disapproval of Israel.

Indeed ... but that doesnt mean i agree with what you was doing.

 

[frogwoman]

i dont know why i fucking bothered to be honest, everyone is just so stubborn and just blames others for stuff, if theres an argument on here to be had, someone will have it, however low and pointless it is, ... and i agree ymu was out of order, you both were, jesus, just accept it and move on, i dont want to hate either of you.

 

[invisibleplanet]

I invoke Frogwoman's Corollary and demand all those who wish to participate return to the topic.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Indeed ... but that doesnt mean i agree with what you was doing.

That's fine.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

i dont know why i fucking bothered to be honest, everyone is just so stubborn and just blames others for stuff, if theres an argument on here to be had, someone will have it, however low and pointless it is, ... and i agree ymu was out of order, you both were, jesus, just accept it and move on, i dont want to hate either of you.

Why would this cause you to hate?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I invoke Frogwoman's Corollary and demand all those who wish to participate return to the topic.

Which is..................Nazi concentration camps.

 

[frogwoman]

Why would this cause you to hate?

Its a figure of speech.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Its a figure of speech.

You should be helping me put the lie to these twats.

I don't mean you of course, ymu.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Speaking of intolerance....the doorbell just rang. I go up there. It's fucking Mormons!

I guess I don't hide my emotions that well. He says: "Did we catch you at a bad time, sir?"

 

[frogwoman]

goodnight

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The Holocaust has always been a sore point with me. Maybe it's the era I was brought up in.

I think the displacement of the Palestinian people is a tragedy; a tragedy brought about by another earlier tragedy. I don't know what the answer is.

However, I won't stand by while the details of the past are subtly altered in order to strengthen the hand of modern day anti israelis.

The Palestinian displacement remains a tragedy; it's not necessary to try to change or efface the historical treatment of the jews, in order to make the treatment of the palestinians somehow a greater tragedy.

 

[laptop]

I think the displacement of the Palestinian people is a tragedy; a tragedy brought about by another earlier tragedy

But that is the Big Lie, and a foul libel on those who suffered in the Shoah.

The tragedy of the Shoah was brought about by Nazism. The end.

The tragedy of the Palestinians was brought about by Zionism. The end.

 

[ymu]

Aye.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The tragedy of the Shoah was brought about by Nazism. .

As well as the underlying christian animus toward judaism, which has existed since the inception of christianity, and without which, the extermination of jews would never even have been contemplated.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

But that is the Big Lie, and a foul libel on those who suffered in the Shoah.

The tragedy of the Shoah was brought about by Nazism. The end.

The tragedy of the Palestinians was brought about by Zionism. The end.

1) For reasons that are obvious and need not be labored, most Jews want to leave Germany and Austria as soon as possible. That is their first and great expressed wish and while this report necessarily deals with other needs present in the situation, many of the people themselves fear other suggestions or plans for their benefit because of the possibility that attention might thereby be diverted from the all-important matter of evacuation from Germany. Their desire to leave Germany is an urgent one. The life which they have led for the past ten years, a life of fear and wandering and physical torture, has made them impatient of delay. They want to be evacuated to Palestine now, just as other national groups are being repatriated to their homes. They do not look kindly on the idea of waiting around in idleness and in discomfort in a German camp for many months until a leisurely solution is found for them.

........................

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

(2) Some wish to return to their countries of nationality but as to this there is considerable nationality variation. Very few Polish or Baltic Jews wish to return to their countries; higher percentages of the Hungarian and Rumanian groups want to return although some hasten to add that it may be only temporarily in order to look for relatives. Some of the German Jews, especially those who have intermarried, prefer to stay in Germany.

.............

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

3) With respect to possible places of resettlement for those who may be stateless or who do not wish to return to their homes, Palestine is definitely and pre-eminently the first choice. Many now have relatives there, while others, having experienced intolerance and persecution in their homelands for years, feel that only in Palestine will they be welcomed and find peace and quiet and be given an opportunity to live and work. In the case of the Polish and the Baltic Jews, the desire to go to Palestine is based in a great majority of the cases on a love for the country and devotion to the Zionist ideal. It is also true however, that there are many who wish to go to Palestine because they realize that their opportunity to be admitted into the United States or into other countries in the Western hemisphere is limited, if not impossible. Whatever the motive which causes them to turn to Palestine, it is undoubtedly true that the great majority of the Jews now in Germany do not wish to return to those countries from which they came.

4) Palestine, while clearly the choice of most, is not the only named place of possible emigration. Some, but the number is not large, wish to emigrate to the United States where they have relatives, others to England, the British Dominions, or to South America.

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/documents/harrison_report.htm

 

[ViolentPanda]

Who better to be that way to than a self-hating jew?

I wouldn't know, I don't know any self-hating Jews.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I wouldn't know, I don't know any self-hating Jews.

I didn't say you knew any.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Perhaps, but it seems to me that the effect, unintended or not, of quibbling about this terminology, is to create a situation wherein the scale of death and atrocity occuring at the concentration camps is glossed over or forgotten, especially by the uninformed young citizens of today.

Really? You actually believe that? To me that says more about state education curricula than "quibbles over terminology".
You see, if you (and I mean you as well as the "uninformed young citizens of today" that you mention) conflate the various crimes against humanity that the Nazis committed, if you lump together Aktion Reinhard with slave labour, with ghettoisation, with euthanisation of the disabled, with the concentration camp system, then you miss fundamentals on which Nazism was built. If you concentrate exclusively on one or two points of the compass you miss the true horror of National Socialism in Germany: The horror not only of the attempted eradication of Jewry and the state-endorsed theft of everything that belonged to them, but the horror of the attempted eradication of dissent, the horror of "racial purity" laws, the horror of the plans the architects of "Greater Germany" had for the populations of central and eastern Europe.
People need to see the whole picture, not just the parts that have shock value, not just the parts that provoke visceral revulsion, they need to see, to try to understand the utter depths of the vileness that was and is Nazism.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So what? Get yourself to a computer that will run broadband, and watch the bit about Dachau.

I have a computer that'll run broadband, what I don't have is a line with enough gain to take a broadband connection.

After seeing or knowing what went on there, to quibble about whether or not to call it a 'death camp' or a 'concentration camp'..........what was that word you used - perfidious?

That word "quibble" again.
It shows how ignorant you are, how much you think you know, how little you actually know. There's more to knowledge than google and the JVL, Johnny, as there's more to the need to distinguish between the different types of camp that a "quibble".

 

[ViolentPanda]

I didn't say you knew any.

No, as usual you're implying that I am one. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, or how much you want it to be true, Johnny. it's just as inaccurate a smear now as it was the last time you wrote it, and that's wildly so.
Do you even realise the sort of people you align yourself with by deploying that hackneyed phrase? I half suspect you do.

 

[Spion]

Should you want to castigate israel, you have a multitude of threads there to do it it.

I have nowhere on this thread castigated Israel. I merely expressed a wish that moving film footage was available to create a greater understanding of other historical atrocities so that they too might be remembered and righted.

But that was too much for you, and your intolerance of that has exposed your lack of humanity perhaps more greatly than I've seen before. Your use of the holocaust to further your cynical aims is nauseating.

 

[Spion]

Watch the film. I know that you haven't.

Now I know what people mean by willy waving on this thread. You've got a nerve. You come on like a kid that's just discovered something and thinks no-one else knows about it. You've no idea where I've been, what I've seen, who I've spoken to and lived among. But hey, Johnny, that doesn't matter - you get your digs in first eh?

 

[invisibleplanet]

Thing is, not many care. Most are tired of hearing about and it just does not get through to them. It happened only 62 years ago, within a single life span and yet people only faintly care to hear about it. This shows how it could have happaned and why it will certainly happen yet again.

European anti-Semitism has been directed not only at Jews for around 1,000 years, but also Muslims and frequently, especially during the Crusade centuries, both Jew and 'Saracen' were targeted for ethnic cleansing by Christian leaders.

Before the German occupation of Hungary on 19th March 1944, the arrival of Jewish refugees increased the total number of Jews in Hungary from around 450,000 to about one million. [By] 1945, Hungarian Jewish population was again reduced in size to that of 1920. [approx. 470,000]. Jewish people suffered monstrous terrors in Hungary at the hands of the Nazis and those who assisted them.

Understanding the horrors meted out to Jews in Europe can help to understand the bitterness, desire for any kind of revenge, need for total security and a support for a homeland to escape to in times of persecution. None of this excuses the displacement of other peoples to achieve this purpose of security, but should help others to understand, and find a way to support both peoples' aspirations as much as is humanly possible.

In Nazareth, there is a private holocaust museum begun by Khaled Ksab Mahamid (a muslim) who attempts to inform his fellow Palestinians of the European Holocaust, so they might understand today what drove Jews from Europe into Palestine in such great numbers throughout the first half of the twentieth century.