Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
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Mick Lynch's time is up
- Thread starter steveseagull
- Start date
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
His take doesn’t seem very clear or well thought out. Almost like he’s focussed on other stuff, like his job and the strike. You are right about some on the left, including some in the RMT, having terrible politics. But the ‘story’ or the claim here is that Lynch was expressing pro-Putin propaganda. I’ve read the interview and asked the posters attacking him to post the evidence. There isn’t any. It’s a smear job by the ‘left wing’ New Statesman.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Oh get a grip, no one on this thread or at the New Statesman has accused him of expressing "pro-Putin propaganda", and the notion that the feeble New Statesman interview is a smear is so utterly absurd it says far more about your politics than anyone else's.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I’m with you on whataboutery. It’s a disingenuous form of politics and is widespread in the discourse: on U75 with regularity for example. Take the Rushdie thread. Some seem more concerned about what might happen as a result of the attack rather than the attack itself.
But, to be critical of American foreign policy or to highlight the position of the Palestinians or people sold into slavery in our country doesn’t seem to me to be a grave offence. I should add I think Lynch is totally wrong on China but again, his ‘crime’ is here is his supposed pro-Putin propoganda. But there isn’t any. It’s a smear job
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
That quote seems like a pretty nuanced (and fairly accurate) view which in no way suggests the Putin regime was not responsible for the invasion of Ukraine. Is nuance automatically pro Putin now? Well obviously in terms the bourgeois media, but here on urban?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
They have actually in post 34 on here and the New Statesman article throws in the line " Lynch’s line about the role of Nazi or neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine resembles that of the Kremlin’s.".
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
It’s only a 4 page thread. Posters have directly accused him of Pro-Putin propaganda. Scroll back. With respect, however, what posters here think is less important than this stuff which the NS must have known would follow its ‘EXCLUSIVE’:
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
And New Statesman journo says, "Ahhh, my work is done!"
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Just to say it's important that the left address the crass anti-imperialist stuff. Among the media elite the big gotcha with Corbyn was the anti-semitism stuff, but among ordinary people I got the impression they were more offended by his dumber anti-imperialist positions that ended up with him acting as though the enemy of his enemy (the US, or sometimes the UK) was his friend. Doing stuff for Iranian TV because you have an anti-imperalist take on the propaganda channels of authoritarian countries may well be justifiable in your little marxist-left bubble but be assured NOBODY outside of that little bubble has the slightest ounce of sympathy for it or ever will. And that's not because they're stooges of imperialism, it's because you have to buy into some really contorted logic to justify going on the propaganda channels of authoritarian countries, and most normal people will never find it acceptable. How about the left address this weak spot in their spokespeople not by blaming the media but by developing some much more nuanced views of the power games at play in the world and there being more than one or two 'bad guys', and perhaps even thinking about every aggressive or abusive or expansionist nation state being a problem.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
You're right Brainaddict, and this sort of idiotpolitik from the left is always going to get hammered by the establishment media. That said, even if influential people on the left didn't come out with mad shit, I'm sure the bourgeois press would find something else to hammer them for, or just make shit up. Still, no excuse for the left to make the bosses' media easy.
Why the fuck is Mick Lynch being quoted on Russia/Ukraine? Those are highly dodgy and inflammatory opinions if true, yes, and I would call anyone out on it if I happened to be chatting to them in the pub. But as someone else up thread there said, he's got an actual job besides being a commentator on geo-politics and that is leading strikes for his people. Which he's doing very well. I can separate the two.
teqniq
DisMembered
The establishment have found a stick to beat him with and are, of course using it. Whether it is successful remains to be seen, if it is not they will look for other sticks.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Wait till you find out that many Ukrainians also felt there were a lot of corrupt politicians and a lot of nazis
And fascists and corrupt politicians on the Russian side too. The point being that none of this is pertinent to the invasion.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Mick Lynch's time is up
I don't actually think his time is going to be up for a long while. I get a massive buzz off Big Mick Lynch high energy. So I thought he deserves a post on here.
www.urban75.net
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Is must surely be possible to have a discussion about Ukraine without ‘well in Russia’ ? I know it’s difficult as far from being two opposites they are remarkably similar in many ways but surely possible .
Lynch wasn’t asked about the invasion was he ? He was asked about the impact on the EU of Brexit re Russia and China .
OK, I can see what he's doing. It's a criticism of the Maidan protests as a sort of proxy criticism of the EU. That doesn't really make any sense, but I might have been getting him wrong. Apologies.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
No need for apols pal. Just pleased we can have an informed and reasoned discussion about subjects we may have different views on .
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Indeed, Zelenskyy himself was elected on an anti corruption platform.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Why? What he said is perfectly true. Things seem to look a whole lot different in the so-called underdeveloped world.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Something which is not forbidden.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
To comply with conditions to avoid loan cancellations and entry into the EU . Which he made little or no progress with aside from managing to get into the Panama papers
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Their aims are reflected in their failed attempt to occupy Kyiv and their struggle to pacify the East and South. I don't suppose they expected the catastrophic loses they experienced.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Of course it is. The Ukrainian flirtation (putting it politely) with fascism gave Russia the opportunity to talk about 'Denazification' and so on, and gave the regime a massive domestic propaganda tool.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
That doesn't mean we know what the aim was. Among many other contradictory statements from Russian sopkesmen and women, there were quotes early on about neither wanting to occupy the whole country nor remove Zelenskiy. Such statements may or may not reflect the actual thinking, but the point is that none of us know for sure what the Russians were/are planning.
Yeah, I sure as fuck wouldn't want to see Lynch as foreign secretary, especially after that China remark, wouldn't even want to drink a pint with him but he's still the right man for the RMT.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
In which case it would be fair to say that we have no idea why they invaded, whether or not they were provoked, whether or not Azov were involved at all in their actions, what the relevance of the breakaway regions is, how NATO or the EU were involved and so on. So all your and our pontifications on this and related subjects is pointless. We've just got no ideas at all.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Who would you like to see as Foreign Secretary?
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