Mick Lynch's time is up

[RD2003]

I suppose it is revealing about his political currents, his China whataboutery in that article is quite something: Salam Hussein and slaves in Leicester.

Takes nothing away from his role as a union leader. Scargill was dubious on all sorts of issues, but he understood the political ramifications if the miners were defeated, and was proved 100% correct.

 

[Red Sky]

They'll turn him into a national treasure and break him that way.

I'm a celebrity.

 

[RD2003]

Has he considered that this is putin propaganda?

Not sure if you're being serious, but probably he hasn't, seeing as it isn't. There is absolutely nothing controversial about stating that Ukraine was/is a hugely corrupt place, where many flirted with fascist and Nazi imagery. They erect statues to fascist 'national heroes' and had at least one openly fascist minister in the first post-Yanukovich government.

 

[Karl Masks]

Not sure if you're being serious, but probably he hasn't, seeing as it isn't. There is absolutely nothing controversial about stating that Ukraine was/is a hugely corrupt place, where many flirted with fascist and Nazi imagery. They erect statues to fascist 'national heroes' and had at least one openly fascist minister in the first post-Yanukovich government.

It is absolutely pro putin propaganda. The idea that Russia was pushed into this by the west is ridiculous.

 

[Karl Masks]

I admire him and his delivery. I love the RMT. I think the indignation expressed here at his lack of adherence to gung ho capitalist driven war just make you look like dogs.

One can oppose the invasion while not believing Russia was provoked. They are not the victim, they are the aggressor. Conversely that doesn't vindicate nor justify corruption and nazism where it exists in Ukraine.

 

[platinumsage]

He’s the sort of bloke I’d listen to on just about anything tbh . He puts his points across in a calm and thoughtful manner that you can engage with imo .
I don’t have to agree with everything he says and neither do you however the idea that somehow he’s left his designated lane because he’s not does speaking about railways ( which if you’ve followed his activity will come as no surprise ) is patronising nonsense . Funnily enough his trade Union RMT have a policy on Ukraine and on other issues as well . Nobody played the ‘shut up Mick ‘ card when he said he was a Connolly supporter or when he talks about the need to build a working class movement .

Dunno if you have read the interview itself but if you have the terrain is ground that has been argued on here as well .

On the one hand he says in the interview “I don’t know if what I’m told by the Telegraph and by American policy writers [about China] is true,” which is fair enough, no one is calling him an expert on China. But then after going on about Saddam not actually having Scud missiles he says “we should stop being so belligerent towards countries” before refusing to address Uyghur slavery.

This is why I queried why anyone should listen to him on foreign affairs. He admits ignorance (or pretends to), but then goes on to push an apparently pro-China position. I’m not saying he ought to speak only on railways, but wouldn‘t his supporters rather he stuck to UK politics?

 

[RD2003]

It is absolutely pro putin propaganda. The idea that Russia was pushed into this by the west is ridiculous.

Yawn, that again.

It isn't to support the Russian invasion to say that it was inevitable when Ukraine allowed itself to be sucked into the NATO and EU orbit.

 

[Karl Masks]

Yawn, that again.

It isn't to support the Russian invasion to say that it was inevitable when Ukraine allowed itself to be sucked into the NATO and EU orbit.

Oh, bored are we? Tiny little attention span so you misrepresent what was said? Fuck's sake, grow up.

 

[RD2003]

Oh, bored are we? Tiny little attention span so you misrepresent what was said? Fuck's sake, grow up.

Don't think I misrepresented anything.

 

[TopCat]

One can oppose the invasion while not believing Russia was provoked. They are not the victim, they are the aggressor. Conversely that doesn't vindicate nor justify corruption and nazism where it exists in Ukraine.

I think Russia was provoked. Many do.

 

[Karl Masks]

Don't think I misrepresented anything.

I spoke about Russia being forced to invade, you decided to interpret that as Ukraine being sucked into the EU's orbit. This alone ignores the fact that many in the country want membership.

 

[RD2003]

I’m not saying he ought to speak only on railways, but wouldn‘t his supporters rather he stuck to UK politics?

Doubt if they care that much as long as he fights for their interests.

 

[RD2003]

I spoke about Russia being forced to invade, you decided to interpret that as Ukraine being sucked into the EU's orbit. This alone ignores the fact that many in the country want membership.

It's the same thing. And what the Ukrainians may or may not have wanted is irrelevant when you consider that Russia begged to differ.

 

[Karl Masks]

I think Russia was provoked. Many do.

Cool, so what?

 

[platinumsage]

Doubt if they care that much as long as he fights for their interests.

Are their interests served by a pro-China position? A Uyghur-whataboutery position?

 

[The39thStep]

It is absolutely pro putin propaganda. The idea that Russia was pushed into this by the west is ridiculous.

What do you think should be done about this ‘pro Putin ‘ Mick Lynch ?

 

[RD2003]

Are their interests served by a pro-China position? A Uyghur-whataboutery position?

You know what I mean. Those he represents are unlikely to care what he thinks about China or ukraine as long as they get what they want.

I doubt if that many miners endorsed Scargill's entire worldview.

 

[platinumsage]

You know what I mean. Those he represents are unlikely to care what he thinks about China or ukraine as long as they get what they want.

I doubt if that many miners endorsed Scargill's entire worldview.

That was my point.

 

[Karl Masks]

What do you think should be done about this ‘pro Putin ‘ Mick Lynch ?

He should be subjected to endless stupid and loaded questions online

 

[RD2003]

That was my point.

What, that they won't win the rail dispute because he has certain views on China?

 

[platinumsage]

What, that they won't win the rail dispute because he has certain views on China?

I didn’t mention the rail dispute, or his effectiveness with respect to it:

It’s funny how some people in the public eye can’t resist speaking outside the scope of their professional role and areas of expertise:

 

[RD2003]

I didn’t mention the rail dispute, or his effectiveness with respect to it:

Fair enough, but I still don't know why you're insisting he shouldn't follow labour movement/ radical tradition by speaking out on a whole host of issues.

 

[The39thStep]

Fair enough, but I still don't know why you're insisting he shouldn't follow labour movement/ radical tradition by speaking out on a whole host of issues.

Needs to get the all clear here first if he wants to say anything about other countries .

 

[platinumsage]

He obvisouly should have done given what he ended up saying.

 

[RD2003]

He obvisouly should have done given what he ended up saying.

When were you made the arbiter of what it's acceptable to say?

 

[The39thStep]

Takes nothing away from his role as a union leader. Scargill was dubious on all sorts of issues, but he understood the political ramifications if the miners were defeated, and was proved 100% correct.

I got locked up at Grunwicks the day Scargill brought a load of miners down to the picket. One of the people in the same cell as me ( the local police cells were rammed ) was a miner from Yorkshire and as we got bored we spent some time on the issue of the ‘page 3 ‘ girl that was in the miners paper which Scargill at the time defended . Went for a pint with the lad after the fact that he came down to show solidarity meant far more than his views on page 3 tbh .

 

[RD2003]

I got locked up at Grunwicks the day Scargill brought a load of miners down to the picket. One of the people in the same cell as me ( the local police cells were rammed ) was a miner from Yorkshire and as we got bored we spent some time on the issue of the ‘page 3 ‘ girl that was in the miners paper which Scargill at the time defended . Went for a pint with the lad after the fact that he came down to show solidarity meant far more than his views on page 3 tbh .

I got sent a young miner to speak at our LPYS group* soon after the outbreak of the '84 strike. His wider view of life raised some eyebrows, but to me he was just like the lads I worked with. Everyone had a great time with him in the pub later. He was a union activist, but different than most of the much more 'political' NUM activists who came to our local miners' support group.



*I wasn't in Militant, but we wrested control from them for a brief period; they flooded the branch and wrested it back. Looking back it was all good fun.

 

[Humberto]

The defence of Ukraine by its citizens and the swelling of its armed forces through volunteers and the conscription of men has surely diluted the fascist threat and influence of the likes of the Azov Battalion. A little bit of support, goodwill and solidarity for this defence could go a long way towards marginalising their like, whereas abandoning a legitimate resistance would surely have the opposite effect.

Neither would there be much prospect for peace; which can only come about when Russia is forced to negotiate, concede and is driven back as far as possible to a point acceptable to Ukranians. Which it likely will be. I also wouldn't want a liberated Ukraine seeing itself as alone, friendless and with a fascist minority able to make hay with that narrative. That is, in the aftermath of an unprovoked war of aggression committed by a foreign country who talks about wiping Ukraine off the map among other things. One which sent in an army that is quite willing to murder, abuse and loot defenceless civilians en masse.

And that's before you get into the prospects for other states which could well be in the Russian Governments' sights in the future if their brutal war of aggression isn't checked. There's a mass of people willing to step up and do that, and they asked for help e.g. in terms of arms and equipment to be able to do it. And that vital support should continue. It's not about being 'gung-ho' or endorsing the nastier elements in Ukraine, but about offering support and solidarity during a dark time for Ukraine.

 

[The39thStep]

RMT condemns the invasion of Ukraine by Russian forces

Dear Colleagues INVASION OF UKRAINE A recent Special Meeting of the NEC agreed the following statement regarding theinvasion of Ukraine. “RMT condemns the invasion of Ukraine by Russian forces and calls for their immediate withdrawal. It is workers and their communities and families who suffer...

www.rmtlondoncalling.org.uk

 

[Knotted]

Why though? Should we seek his considered views on Israel, Love Island and the Mar-a-Lago raid too?

Actually yes to all three, please.