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Men on 1970s pro-paedophile list could still work with children today

Aaronf

Aaronf

159.9 a litre
Had the misfortune to come across this earlier:

www.bbc.co.uk

Men on 1970s pro-paedophile list could still work with children today

A small number have been identified from a 300-strong group of adults who called for legal sex with children.
www.bbc.co.uk

I think not being able to believe what I was reading actually led me to reading most of it! šŸ˜®

I think I could have posted in a what has p!$$ed you off today thread or similar but I guess overall it's reaffirming to know others are just as shocked if that makes sense?

How on earth can people be roaming the earth who think what is in the article?? I just can't comprehend how someone could šŸ˜¢
 
My mum knew one of those people (as a colleague and union comrade) who is thankfully dead now. She continued to make excuses for him right up to his death. As far as I can tell, they managed to persuade quite a few people on the left (including some Labour party politicians) that the paedophile cause was part of the general sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s. I have a vague memory of reading a basically pro paedophile article in the Guardian in the late 80s or early 90s. Complete shitshow and any survivors should be added to the sex offenders register.
 
maomao said:
My mum knew one of those people (as a colleague and union comrade) who is thankfully dead now. She continued to make excuses for him right up to his death. As far as I can tell, they managed to persuade quite a few people on the left (including some Labour party politicians) that the paedophile cause was part of the general sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s. I have a vague memory of reading a basically pro paedophile article in the Guardian in the late 80s or early 90s. Complete shitshow and any survivors should be added to the sex offenders register.
Click to expand...
I get the impression some of this was down to people wanting to oppose homophobia/equalise the age of consent and that PIE absolutely and cynically played on that. (I mean it's absolutely mind boggling to us how any of this could have been allowed to happen. :( )

The R4 programme is In Dark Corners - Series 2 - 1. The List - BBC Sounds
 
maomao said:
My mum knew one of those people (as a colleague and union comrade) who is thankfully dead now. She continued to make excuses for him right up to his death. As far as I can tell, they managed to persuade quite a few people on the left (including some Labour party politicians) that the paedophile cause was part of the general sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s. I have a vague memory of reading a basically pro paedophile article in the Guardian in the late 80s or early 90s. Complete shitshow and any survivors should be added to the sex offenders register.
Click to expand...
Yup, some years ago Labour figures who had been involved in a civil liberties group that in some way supported, or at least tolerated, ā€œPIEā€ had questions to answer about what support theyā€™d given. Including Patricia Hewitt and Harriet Harman, if memory serves me. I remember them being evasive. Iā€™m loath to do a search, though, as Iā€™d prefer not to be dragged into the gutter by the search.
 
maomao said:
My mum knew one of those people (as a colleague and union comrade) who is thankfully dead now. She continued to make excuses for him right up to his death. As far as I can tell, they managed to persuade quite a few people on the left (including some Labour party politicians) that the paedophile cause was part of the general sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s. I have a vague memory of reading a basically pro paedophile article in the Guardian in the late 80s or early 90s. Complete shitshow and any survivors should be added to the sex offenders register.
Click to expand...
I agree with the last bit. I'm not sure what the motivation was by the BBC for the article or what will come of it but along with the other about the grooming gangs - so so much needs to be done about it :(

It's hard to comprehend like I said that this movement or whatever it is gained any traction at all in the 70's etc, it's worrying that a number will still be alive.

It's also maddening that they even bring human rights into it which I'm sure they still would if anything did happen today.
 
I think it's hard today to realise just how hard people tried up until the 1980s to pretend that child sexual abuse wasn't a thing. Even today, with the progress that has been made, we're a long, long way from having a societal mentality that facilitates prevention (eg teaching kids what inappropriate contact is, and what to do about it), and responding effectively and proportionately to disclosures when they happen.

I'd go as far as to say that a lot of the narratives around CSA still get in the way of disclosure even today. And that's before we go anywhere near treatment of offenders or potential offenders.
 
Lotte said:
I'm hoping that the grooming gangs discourse will lead to more educating children about how to look out for potential grooming, how to say no, who to talk to etc. I doubt it will though.
Click to expand...
Given how long ago the original cases were, it doesn't look like much has been done. Remember, the narrative at the time was that these were "bad girls" and thus probably complicit in the abuse. And that attitude prevailed in social services, the police, and pretty much everyone involved in the so-called care of these children.
 
Lotte said:
I'm hoping that the grooming gangs discourse will lead to more educating children about how to look out for potential grooming, how to say no, who to talk to etc. I doubt it will though.
Click to expand...
There are at least some people I encounter who blame sex education for encouraging young people. Perhaps in some cases it plays into a lack of willingness to listen to the young people abused.
 
kenny g said:
The film Chicken hawk is an eye opener, especially for featuring Allen Ginsberg as a supporter of NAMBLA.
Click to expand...
Even reading the 1st link on Wikipedia makes you feel sick. I do think on top of these people unfortunately ever committing a criminal act - they're not right in the head to start with and need prevention from getting to that point. If you can't cure them for whatever reason then governments and specialist authorities need to prioritise preventing them in all shapes and forms from getting close to kids.

Again from wiki - one of them truly 'believing' a child was flirting with them, I mean wtf??? They could always volunteer their brain to start with in the interests of science, one way to curb it.
 
This has for a long time been a huge part of the problem and (afaik) even the professional bodies can't agree.....if this is a sexual orientation like any other how can people be 'cured'.......if you are say, straight/gay you can't be 'cured' of it....what do you do with such people ?.Would you be willing for yours (or anybodies) kids to be near and therefore at risk with such a person ? personally i wouldn't. And obviously this is only people that are known about...have felt for ages that this is a much bigger issue than most of us realise.
 
Aaronf said:
Even reading the 1st link on Wikipedia makes you feel sick. I do think on top of these people unfortunately ever committing a criminal act - they're not right in the head to start with and need prevention from getting to that point. If you can't cure them for whatever reason then governments and specialist authorities need to prioritise preventing them in all shapes and forms from getting close to kids.

Again from wiki - one of them truly 'believing' a child was flirting with them, I mean wtf??? They could always volunteer their brain to start with in the interests of science, one way to curb it.
Click to expand...
I do think we have to be careful not to objectify these people, just as they objectify children. There's always the danger of becoming that which we oppose, and talk of dissecting brains takes us an uncomfortable step closer to being that bit more like they are.

For that matter, we also need to be careful not to go too far down the "othering" road. These people might have thoughts, and perform acts, which are utterly disgusting and depraved to be most of us, but nothing is gained by assuming that they are not, in most respects, just the same as us.
 
I remember as a student PIE being discussed in the Student's Union. It was a male college. People complained about how 16-year-old boys could be prosecuted for having sex with their 15-year-old girlfriends. All very self-centred, combined with the nonsense about male gay age of consent still being 21 at that time. That was how PIE got away with it for so long. All this was still very new at the time, for most people, and not well thought through.
 
mentalchik said:
This has for a long time been a huge part of the problem and (afaik) even the professional bodies can't agree.....if this is a sexual orientation like any other how can people be 'cured'.......if you are say, straight/gay you can't be 'cured' of it....what do you do with such people ?.Would you be willing for yours (or anybodies) kids to be near and therefore at risk with such a person ? personally i wouldn't. And obviously this is only people that are known about...have felt for ages that this is a much bigger issue than most of us realise.
Click to expand...
I suppose the "cure" is for paedophiles to learn to not act out on what they find sexually stimulating. That is why groups such as NAMBLA and PIE were so pernicious. They suggested that children were capable of consenting to sexual acts with adults.
 
kenny g said:
I suppose the "cure" is for paedophiles to learn to not act out on what they find sexually stimulating. That is why groups such as NAMBLA and PIE were so pernicious. They suggested that children were capable of consenting to sexual acts with adults.
Click to expand...

yes, i'm old so i have memories of them....i might be wrong but weren't they even given air time etc on the media ?
 
I think once nearly all the members had been prosecuted for various porn and abuse offences they moved from being seen as talking point orgs to criminal conspiracies.
 
Aaronf said:
I agree with the last bit. I'm not sure what the motivation was by the BBC for the article or what will come of it but along with the other about the grooming gangs - so so much needs to be done about it :(

It's hard to comprehend like I said that this movement or whatever it is gained any traction at all in the 70's etc, it's worrying that a number will still be alive.

It's also maddening that they even bring human rights into it which I'm sure they still would if anything did happen today.
Click to expand...
Harman's elevation to the House of Lords is probably the trigger.
 
Whilst grim, it is worth remembering that these people were adept at getting accepted into a wide range of political contexts. So Labour and Peace News, as already stated, but also ā€œGay Left: A Socialist Journal Produced by Gay Menā€.

This is useful background. How paedophiles infiltrated the left and hijacked the fight for civil rights

I seem to recall that some of this grimness was also being put about by the right wing Libertarian Alliance too.

Being manipulative and persuasive goes with the territory unfortunately.
 
I'd never heard of NAMBLA until I started reading Maximum Rock n Roll (the US punk fanzine-bible) in the early 90s, where they seemed to get mentioned every now and then. I don't recall outright support *, and most were vehemently opposed to everything they stood for, but there was a strain of 'why shouldn't they be given free speech', 'don't accept society's conditioning' anarcho-libertarian apologism that I just found baffling as well as appalling.

* Although those who also read MRR will probably recall Mykel Board. I'm amazed to see that he's still alive and walking freely.
 
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