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Men’s violence against women and girls is a national emergency

Always the practices reproducing the underlying idea of men are more important than women


Even things are more important than women.

Maybe that’s one of the reasons women are objectified: if they’re put on the same level as cars etc they’re more likely to be respected, protected. The only way they can act and think in ways that are protective, respectful, is if they include women in the category of “prized object”.

A certain kind of man (Tate being a good example) flaunts women in the same way they do their cars etc. They also dispose of low value material things in a particular way, which is also mirrored in their behaviour towards women.
 
Yep. My thoughts exactly when I saw the sentencing.

He very nearly avoided a custodial, unbelievably. I heard through my solicitor that he was looking at probation because, and get this, it was his first offence and 'out of character'. The cunt overpowered me, sat on top of me and stabbed me 12 times with a large chef's knife in what was described by the police as a 'frenzied attack'. He only stopped because I pretended to be dead. He believed he'd killed me. I nearly died twice, had a punctured lung, damaged liver, cut artery at the back of my head, multiple stab wounds. But ok, yeh, first offence, give him probation eh?
This is nuts. Fucking unbelievable. Surely there is a line where "first offence" becomes an irrelevance. Physically harming another human for example.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.
 
I think the bro code thing is a really powerful part of patriarchal conditioning. I don’t think men even notice they’re doing it, when they automatically assume the man is in the right, was provoked, wasn’t so bad etc. It’s a reflex, I think.

And - going back to my earlier questions - I think it’s incumbent on men to stop and check their assumptions when they find themselves automatically making a judgment.

Like, how many men immediately go to pah! woman driver even though they know intellectually that women are statistically better drivers.

None of us, in any area of life, can hope to unravel our prejudices if we don’t examine our reflexive automatic assumptions. Step one is acknowledging we do it. Step two is recognising when we do it. Step three is accepting that we just did it, not pretending to ourselves that we didn’t, not excusing or explaining it away.

But it’s really painful to do that.


Was talking with a bloke this weekend. He talked over me a lot, like all the time. But I noticed he did it more to women than he did to men. I pointed it out to him and he immediately* refuted it, then he made a joke about how it was okay because har-dee-har-har-har women innit. He assumed the bro code would protect him from having to think about it.




*Like, immediately, with absolutely no time to think, reflect, check. It was reflex. His second reaction was to do down women.
 
Jesus wept, sojourner. It's unbelievable. There seems to be some sort of underlying thing that the woman brought it on herself, or that she drove the poor man to it. If the same man had attacked some random in the street, he'd be treated far more harshly. But because the woman belonged to him, it wasn't so serious.
Aye. One of the phrases I got used to hearing afterwards, from people I knew and had considered mates, was 'what did she/you do to deserve that'. Deserve. Over and over and over. Well, if asking someone for a temporary separation for a few weeks, during which they left the house but still had all the access they wanted to our daughter, then yes, I totally deserved killing for that eh?

In what fucking circumstances would ANYONE 'deserve' to be stabbed in a frenzied attack?
 
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I’m so sorry that happened to you sojourner .

And I’m very glad indeed that you’ve now built a life that’s happy and fulfilling. That’s a real testament to your strength, resilience, and determination.

Thank you for sharing your story. Some people find this stuff too abstract to grasp. Hearing this extreme stuff from one of our own could help someone grasp the magnitude of the issue.
Thanks. Yes, I have, but it's had a lifelong effect on both me and my daughter (who was in the room upstairs, heard it all, the screaming etc, and saw me immediately afterwards, pissing blood from everywhere). She has recently been diagnosed with CPTSD, and is receiving treatment for it. We have both had serious drug and alcohol abuse issues since then, directly related to the trauma. Only in the last few years have we both been able to address these issues with any success, and the attack happened in 1995. Violence like this has lifelong effects, it's never just 'one off' and done with. It's why I get so fucking angry when I hear about yet another man killing his partner/ex partner/children - those left behind have had their lives RUINED, and they may never recover.
 
Thanks. Yes, I have, but it's had a lifelong effect on both me and my daughter (who was in the room upstairs, heard it all, the screaming etc, and saw me immediately afterwards, pissing blood from everywhere). She has recently been diagnosed with CPTSD, and is receiving treatment for it. We have both had serious drug and alcohol abuse issues since then, directly related to the trauma. Only in the last few years have we both been able to address these issues with any success, and the attack happened in 1995. Violence like this has lifelong effects, it's never just 'one off' and done with. It's why I get so fucking angry when I hear about yet another man killing his partner/ex partner/children - those left behind have had their lives RUINED, and they may never recover.


It’s so important that this life-time run-on effect is better understood and recognised.

I suspect it was / is attributed to “typical hysterical over emotional female reaction”.
 
It’s so important that this life-time run-on effect is better understood and recognised.

I suspect it was / is attributed to “typical hysterical over emotional female reaction”.


And that’s an artefact of the patriarchy too: men “tough it out” while women “over-react”.

So we end up with internalised, suppressed, deflected, projected emotional responses from men. Resulting in yet more violence and abuse.
 
Shit sojourner that's horrible to read- I'm so sorry that happened to you and your daughter!

My friend who's ex ( DV) was found dead a few weeks ago, and the police called it as suicide ( although now it's looking like an accidental overdose) just sent me this because her parents ( his are in the uk , so they were arranging it) cancelled the funeral, because his friends were making threats towards her because it's " all her fault"

"Yep I drove him to

a. Use
b. Die.

Imagine if I went on a binge. Maxed out 4 credit cards, sold all my families belongings to buy drugs, didn't pay child support. Never went through the legal route to have access to my kids, went to prison for terrorising him. Then purposefully or accidentally died under the influence of drugs.

I'd be called a BAD MOTHER, not a martyr!! Not a victim!! I would be WHOLLY responsible for my own actions and choices. But, for some reason he's been excused of all of that and I CONTROLLED all of his actions through staying the F out of his way until he got better?!

I feel like I'm going insane trying to make sense of how cruel people can be!!!!"
 
Jesus wept, sojourner. It's unbelievable. There seems to be some sort of underlying thing that the woman brought it on herself, or that she drove the poor man to it. If the same man had attacked some random in the street, he'd be treated far more harshly. But because the woman belonged to him, it wasn't so serious.
Before I read this post, I was looking at the comments regarding "it takes a village to raise a child" and thinking that one of the problems is the proprietorial nature so many people seem to feel the relationship between parent and child is ("It's MY child", as if no-one else should have any kind of opinion on the matter). And was then going on to muse about how that proprietorial attitude extends to partners, and in the case of female partners, to a degree where ownership is a factor ("she's mine, I can do what I like"). While that may only become manifest in more extreme cases, I do wonder just how prevalent it actually is - women being prevented from being independent, going out, even going to work, because "my wife/partner does what I say".

And I suspect one of the reasons it's not more obvious is that, rather than have a stand up battle about it, many women simply small themselves down and fit themselves into the role they're being cast in, because the stakes feel just too high for them to feel safe asserting themselves. Which, of course, is going to spiral in to ever more restrictive "rules", and ever more entitled behaviours from their partners. (ETA: just to be completely clear about this, I am not suggesting that women who do this are part of the problem - on the contrary, the "problem" is that this should even be an option for them.)

And then I got to thinking that, for some men, ALL women are a kind of property - someone who doesn't really have the right to say "No", or "I don't like you doing that". Perhaps, in some cases, without the men actually realising how deeply embedded that attitude of ownership and entitlement is in them.
 
Before I read this post, I was looking at the comments regarding "it takes a village to raise a child" and thinking that one of the problems is the proprietorial nature so many people seem to feel the relationship between parent and child is ("It's MY child", as if no-one else should have any kind of opinion on the matter). And was then going on to muse about how that proprietorial attitude extends to partners, and in the case of female partners, to a degree where ownership is a factor ("she's mine, I can do what I like"). While that may only become manifest in more extreme cases, I do wonder just how prevalent it actually is - women being prevented from being independent, going out, even going to work, because "my wife/partner does what I say".

And I suspect one of the reasons it's not more obvious is that, rather than have a stand up battle about it, many women simply small themselves down and fit themselves into the role they're being cast in, because the stakes feel just too high for them to feel safe asserting themselves. Which, of course, is going to spiral in to ever more restrictive "rules", and ever more entitled behaviours from their partners. (ETA: just to be completely clear about this, I am not suggesting that women who do this are part of the problem - on the contrary, the "problem" is that this should even be an option for them.)

And then I got to thinking that, for some men, ALL women are a kind of property - someone who doesn't really have the right to say "No", or "I don't like you doing that". Perhaps, in some cases, without the men actually realising how deeply embedded that attitude of ownership and entitlement is in them.
Indeed.

I asked for the separation because I had wanted to travel beyond his preferred caravan in Towyn, and also wanted to do a degree. He wanted me to do neither of those things, in fact TOLD ME I wasn't going to. I had suppressed my own needs and wants for about 5 or 6 years at this point (he had been controlling before this, and once smashed the house up in front of me and my lass because I had asked too many times how much he was earning on the taxis), but they were bursting out of me.

Happy to say that I travelled widely after that, got distinctions on my Access to HE course, and a 2.1 degree with honours 👍
 
Aye. One of the phrases I got used to hearing afterwards, from people I knew and had considered mates, was 'what did she/you do to deserve that'.
So this is a very trivial example compared to the terrible attack you were subjected to.

In a previous job, there was a guy who was pretty senior. All aggression and testosterone and quite big to boot.

So one day, i was sitting at my desk working when he suddenly appeared, towering over me. He stood very close and literally started shouting at me. I'd no idea what was going on but felt physically quite threatened. I stood up and asked what was going on. He shouted a bit more then left.

This was in the middle of the office. No-one said anything. Apart from the only other woman in the office who messaged me, asking if I was okay.

My manager was there, saw the shouting thing and did nothing. I spoke to him about it and he said, 'But what did you do to provoke him? You must have done something.'

I said I'd no idea what it was about but this man's behaviour was completely unacceptable in any circumstance. But no. My manager continued with me obviously provoking him into it and only backed off eventually when someone else (a man) explained I'd been sitting at my desk working when it all kicked off.

And shouty, aggressive man is still there and has been promoted.

(Not my only experience of an aggressive man shouting at me in the office either.)
 
So this is a very trivial example compared to the terrible attack you were subjected to.

In a previous job, there was a guy who was pretty senior. All aggression and testosterone and quite big to boot.

So one day, i was sitting at my desk working when he suddenly appeared, towering over me. He stood very close and literally started shouting at me. I'd no idea what was going on but felt physically quite threatened. I stood up and asked what was going on. He shouted a bit more then left.

This was in the middle of the office. No-one said anything. Apart from the only other woman in the office who messaged me, asking if I was okay.

My manager was there, saw the shouting thing and did nothing. I spoke to him about it and he said, 'But what did you do to provoke him? You must have done something.'

I said I'd no idea what it was about but this man's behaviour was completely unacceptable in any circumstance. But no. My manager continued with me obviously provoking him into it and only backed off eventually when someone else (a man) explained I'd been sitting at my desk working when it all kicked off.

And shouty, aggressive man is still there and has been promoted.

(Not my only experience of an aggressive man shouting at me in the office either.)
Sorry to hear this Sue. I have also had similar in work. Old boss always took the side of the threatening male tenants in every single case. That 'deserve, provoke' over and over.
 
“That man is a pal of mine, I can’t imagine him behaving badly…. Well, not that badly…. I’ve seen him being a little out of order sometimes, a bit short, a little curt perhaps, sometimes a bit of a bully, but nothing violent… and tbh I’ve been a bit lairy sometimes too…. but never violent…. [secretly to self… if he’s out of order that means I’m out of order…and I’m not out of order, so nor is he…]… yeah, he’s alright, he’s not a problem, so the problem must be her….”
 
Before I read this post, I was looking at the comments regarding "it takes a village to raise a child" and thinking that one of the problems is the proprietorial nature so many people seem to feel the relationship between parent and child is ("It's MY child", as if no-one else should have any kind of opinion on the matter). And was then going on to muse about how that proprietorial attitude extends to partners, and in the case of female partners, to a degree where ownership is a factor ("she's mine, I can do what I like"). While that may only become manifest in more extreme cases, I do wonder just how prevalent it actually is - women being prevented from being independent, going out, even going to work, because "my wife/partner does what I say".

And I suspect one of the reasons it's not more obvious is that, rather than have a stand up battle about it, many women simply small themselves down and fit themselves into the role they're being cast in, because the stakes feel just too high for them to feel safe asserting themselves. Which, of course, is going to spiral in to ever more restrictive "rules", and ever more entitled behaviours from their partners. (ETA: just to be completely clear about this, I am not suggesting that women who do this are part of the problem - on the contrary, the "problem" is that this should even be an option for them.)

And then I got to thinking that, for some men, ALL women are a kind of property - someone who doesn't really have the right to say "No", or "I don't like you doing that". Perhaps, in some cases, without the men actually realising how deeply embedded that attitude of ownership and entitlement is in them.
This is all reinforced strongly in popular culture. I’m thinking of all those love songs.
 
Was talking with a bloke this weekend. He talked over me a lot, like all the time. But I noticed he did it more to women than he did to men. I pointed it out to him and he immediately* refuted it, then he made a joke about how it was okay because har-dee-har-har-har women innit. He assumed the bro code would protect him from having to think about it.

Many years ago, I was the first woman to do a particular job in a local authority. I was repeatedly spoken over by several of my colleagues in meetings, and had to resort to "I'm still speaking" on many occasions. The worst offender was eventually given a blistering and very public put-down by the manager, and it stopped happening after that.
 
Wow sojourner - I’ve known you for years and had no idea. Massive respect on coming out the other side of that and being a great parent to your girl and making a good life for yourself.
Thank you. I'm certain that I've mentioned it quite a few times on here over the years though, you just mustn't have seen it :)
 
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“That man is a pal of mine, I can’t imagine him behaving badly…. Well, not that badly…. I’ve seen him being a little out of order sometimes, a bit short, a little curt perhaps, sometimes a bit of a bully, but nothing violent… and tbh I’ve been a bit lairy sometimes too…. but never violent…. [secretly to self… if he’s out of order that means I’m out of order…and I’m not out of order, so nor is he…]… yeah, he’s alright, he’s not a problem, so the problem must be her….”
I sometimes think that part of growing up is that moment when your thought process goes from "I’m not out of order, so nor is he" to "he's out of order maybe I am too".
 
Now let's see what happens to the bloke.

And these two also mentioned in the article...

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That’s a typo in the second victim’s name, she was called Edith Muthoni. This article gives some context:


Absolutely horrific
 
Never safe, are we? You can rise to the top of your profession, compete on the world stage, and be murdered on an angry man's whim. You can be a devoted wife and mother for 50 years and then find out your husband has sold you for rape and endangered your life over decades. Get pregnant? You're at greater risk of domestic abuse. Don't get pregnant? You're a crazy cat lady who can't be trusted. There is no path we can take that isn't beshat by the turds of male inadequacy.
 
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