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Men’s violence against women and girls is a national emergency

These things are in no way inconsistent, though, which is the point that story was making. The fact that we all internalise the social relationships that we are born into is associated with two things: (1) we feel comfortable when a context conforms with those relationships; and (2) our performance of the relationships that we feel comfortable with is part of how their legitimacy and normalcy get reproduced. So the fact that Mr. and Mrs. Normal like their performance of normal is neither here nor there if it comes at the cost of reproducing a system that has come to be viewed as problematic. History is littered with familial systems that were embraced by those who enacted them at the time, but which we now view as being unacceptable in some way other
Oh I understand and agree with that point.
What is your feeling if you apply the same thought process to a Muslim women saying wearing a veil is her choice?, is she also a victim of her social programming?
 
Yeah, misogyny transcends class. I have a brother and stepbrother and thank FUCK that neither of them were ever into this shit. But to have your own son suddenly decide he hates you because you're a woman...there are no words.
I disagree, Mysogyny is well embedded in the Alpha male personality and the social systems that we have ensure that this same personality type is far more likely to attain greater wealth and power resulting in a greater propensity towards Mysogyny in social climbers
 
Oh I understand and agree with that point.
What is your feeling if you apply the same thought process to a Muslim women saying wearing a veil is her choice?, is she also a victim of her social programming?
“Programming” is entirely the wrong word. It implies passivity. Humans are entirely active in their engagement with how objects are socially represented — engaged in the practices and language, engaged in the rituals and stories, engaged in being an actor in the world.

So that said — you’re bringing us back to the very question that story was asking: what do we actually do about all this, given the fact that what is “best” is so contested, let alone how we get it?

I started off in this thread saying that we’re only an eyeblink into this social change and that it’ll take many generations to work through. This is part of why — you can’t just expect to turn peoples’ sense of their whole reality on its head. I think it’s really important to constantly be questioning why everything is as it is, but forcing others down a road they aren’t ready for will just be counterproductive. Ideas have to percolate and transition from “polemical” to “emancipated” before finally becoming “hegemonic” representations of reality. We’re always going to live in the liminal space where minority ideas are battling for legitimacy and majority ideas are becoming challenged, and this is just another of those spaces.
 
I disagree, Mysogyny is well embedded in the Alpha male personality and the social systems that we have ensure that this same personality type is far more likely to attain greater wealth and power resulting in a greater propensity towards Mysogyny in social climbers


Misogyny is embedded everywhere. Top to bottom. It’s expressed differently at different points. If you’re not noticing it, that’s on you.
 
I disagree, Mysogyny is well embedded in the Alpha male personality and the social systems that we have ensure that this same personality type is far more likely to attain greater wealth and power resulting in a greater propensity towards Mysogyny in social climbers
It's largely held up by the men (the majority as of 2024) who buy into that, who have less to gain when there's no such thing as 'Alpha'. It's men who largely see women as an attachment, to totally control and use. The effects and consequences operate at all levels of society, but it's the poor and choiceless who carry it. Nevetheless suffering is suffering, a murder or a beating is just that.
 
Misogyny is embedded everywhere. Top to bottom. It’s expressed differently at different points. If you’re not noticing it, that’s on you.
Of course itexists in every corner of society
If you arent noticing that class differences in attitude across many fronts exist including attitudes to those of a different sex, that's on you
I guess having spent time crossing from one side of the tracks to the other I have a deeper grasp of class differences than most
 
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Of course itexists in every corner of society
If you arent noticing that class differences in attitude across many fronts exist including attitudes to those of a different sex, that's on you
I guess having spent time crossing from one side of the tracks to the other I have a deeper grasp of class differences than most
It's perhaps a pity you didn't stay in the middle of the tracks
 
Of course itexists in every corner of society
If you arent noticing that class differences in attitude across many fronts exist including attitudes to those of a different sex, that's on you
I guess having spent time crossing from one side of the tracks to the other I have a deeper grasp of class differences than most


So this looks to me like an example of the problem.

Find something that makes me feel stronger, superior.

Use that to strike back, hold my turf, prove I’m better, bigger, bolder, stronger, more valid.
 
Of course itexists in every corner of society
If you arent noticing that class differences in attitude across many fronts exist including attitudes to those of a different sex, that's on you
I guess having spent time crossing from one side of the tracks to the other I have a deeper grasp of class differences than most


Of course I’m aware of class differences and how they play out in this and any number of other issues, because I’m an actual human person living in the modern age.
 
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National emergency but punch and knife a woman multiple times for rejecting you and get a curfew
Just looking at the Standard, these are all on the same page:

Man kills his wife in front of her two children:


Man kills wife and daughter:


Man kills partner:


I mean it's absolutely relentless. And feels like it's getting worse and worse.
 
That’s also about what is newsworthy. I just had a quick google and men are more likely to be a victim of murder. It’s not necessarily a representative sample although obviously one killing is too many.
And men are most likely to be the murderers of both.
So, as a result of intimate partner violence :

147 women killed in 2021
242 women killed in 2023
So it is getting worse. I means that's my sense but Christ. :mad:
 
And men are most likely to be the murderers of both.

So it is getting worse. I means that's my sense but Christ. :mad:

Those figures aren’t directly comparable. And the larger number may be a fluke.

The report in the OP would suggest that things are getting worse but I’m not going to state it as a fact til I see more numbers.

Things are reported and recorded differently as time progresses. For example I don’t think suicide as a result of DV was included or even recognised until recently.


For me, the report form the UN is particularly significant: worldwide numbers of murdered women and children is going up even as homicide numbers are generally going down.

So women and children now form a larger percentage of a smaller number.

Something is badly wrong,



NB Just to be clear
Men are still being killed in higher numbers than women
 
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More up to date information:


1.Main points​

  • There were 590 homicides recorded in the year ending March 2023, 14% lower than the previous year (684 offences).
  • This was the lowest number of homicides since the year ending March 2016 (538), excluding the year ending March 2021 when volumes of public space violence tended to be suppressed because of coronavirus (COVID-19) lockdown periods.
  • The homicide rate was 9.9 victims per million population, with the rate for males (14.2 per million population) more than twice that for females (6.0 per million population).
  • The homicide rate over the three-year period to the year ending March 2023 was 39.8 victims per million population for the Black ethnic group, more than four times higher than for the White ethnic group (8.7 victims per million population).
  • There were 51 homicide victims aged 13 to 19 years in the year ending March 2023, down from 70 the previous year.
  • Teenage victims were far more likely to be killed by a knife or a sharp instrument (82% of homicides) than for victims of all ages (41%); this was a higher proportion than the previous year where 73% of teenage victims were killed by a knife or sharp instrument.
  • There were 100 domestic homicides in the year ending March 2023, 37 fewer than the previous year, and the lowest annual figure since these data were first collected electronically in 1977.
  • Women were more likely to be killed by someone they knew than men, for example, of the 100 domestic homicide victims in the year ending March 2023, 70 were women.



 
Those figures aren’t directly comparable. And the larger number may be a fluke.

The report in the OP would suggest that things are getting worse but I’m not going to state it as a fact til I see more numbers.

Homicide rates in both sexes have been pretty flat for the last decade and come down a lot from the peak in the late mid 90s.

stats.PNG

Lots of stats here: Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

It says that domestic murders fell in the most recent year to the lowest level recorded although this figure might rise as more suspects are charged. That includes male victims as well though, there's probably a breakdown by sex if you dig into the spreadsheets. Pertinently it says:
Almost half (45%) of all adult female homicide victims were killed in a domestic homicide (70). Of these 70 female victims, all but one were killed by a male suspect
 
On reflection….

Saying it’s a “national emergency” might not indicate that numbers are going up.

It might be that finally, someone has recognised that, yunno, intimate partner violence is, like, some kind of national fucking emergency
 
IMG_0675.png


So this is from the Guardian piece in the OP.

It covers not only domestic violence but other stuff too.




Whatever the details, the underlying and overreaching issue is systemic misogyny and the patriarchy.
 
Do you hear it too, though? What’s special about VAWG? What about the men and boys? More of them get killed.
They do.

I never know what to say to these people, except to ask who kills the men and boys.
And who kills the women and girls in their homes?

We need to say who kills, not only who gets killed (as if getting killed is bringing it on yourself).
Who kills?

(And, obviously, NAMALT, because some men resemble these remarks)
 
Yeah. Somehow it’s inherently necessary to add in stuff to cover the “what about the menz” angle even as we discuss these appalling numbers, in order to deflect the inevitable.


I think that’s a good-enough response bluescreen . Because if they don’t get it when you say that it’s like walking up a down escalator anyway.
 
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