_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
Oh I understand and agree with that point.
What is your feeling if you apply the same thought process to a Muslim women saying wearing a veil is her choice?, is she also a victim of her social programming?
Men’s violence against women and girls is a national emergency
- Thread starter ElizabethofYork
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What is your feeling if you apply the same thought process to a Muslim women saying wearing a veil is her choice?, is she also a victim of her social programming?
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
I disagree, Mysogyny is well embedded in the Alpha male personality and the social systems that we have ensure that this same personality type is far more likely to attain greater wealth and power resulting in a greater propensity towards Mysogyny in social climbers
“Programming” is entirely the wrong word. It implies passivity. Humans are entirely active in their engagement with how objects are socially represented — engaged in the practices and language, engaged in the rituals and stories, engaged in being an actor in the world.
So that said — you’re bringing us back to the very question that story was asking: what do we actually do about all this, given the fact that what is “best” is so contested, let alone how we get it?
I started off in this thread saying that we’re only an eyeblink into this social change and that it’ll take many generations to work through. This is part of why — you can’t just expect to turn peoples’ sense of their whole reality on its head. I think it’s really important to constantly be questioning why everything is as it is, but forcing others down a road they aren’t ready for will just be counterproductive. Ideas have to percolate and transition from “polemical” to “emancipated” before finally becoming “hegemonic” representations of reality. We’re always going to live in the liminal space where minority ideas are battling for legitimacy and majority ideas are becoming challenged, and this is just another of those spaces.
story
Changing the facts
Misogyny is embedded everywhere. Top to bottom. It’s expressed differently at different points. If you’re not noticing it, that’s on you.
Humberto
Margin (martian) margin
It's largely held up by the men (the majority as of 2024) who buy into that, who have less to gain when there's no such thing as 'Alpha'. It's men who largely see women as an attachment, to totally control and use. The effects and consequences operate at all levels of society, but it's the poor and choiceless who carry it. Nevetheless suffering is suffering, a murder or a beating is just that.
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
Of course itexists in every corner of society
If you arent noticing that class differences in attitude across many fronts exist including attitudes to those of a different sex, that's on you
I guess having spent time crossing from one side of the tracks to the other I have a deeper grasp of class differences than most
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existentialist
Tired and unemotional
It's always wonderful when people roll up on threads like this and propose simplistic "solutions" as if nobody else on the previous 23 pages of the thread could ever have thought of them, far less realised pretty quickly that they're missing the point.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It's perhaps a pity you didn't stay in the middle of the tracks
story
Changing the facts
So this looks to me like an example of the problem.
Find something that makes me feel stronger, superior.
Use that to strike back, hold my turf, prove I’m better, bigger, bolder, stronger, more valid.
story
Changing the facts
Of course I’m aware of class differences and how they play out in this and any number of other issues, because I’m an actual human person living in the modern age.
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ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Can't help noticing that two of the top 5 stories on the BBC news website are about attacks on women and girls. Three girls killed by a man in Southport. Three women killed by a man in Bushey.
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Southport. But yeah.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Sorry, i'll edit.
trashpony
Hag
National emergency but punch and knife a woman multiple times for rejecting you and get a curfew
www.standard.co.uk
EastEnders actor spared jail after slashing woman with knife
Harry Rafferty flew into a ‘rage’ after woman rejected his sexual advances
www.standard.co.uk
Just looking at the Standard, these are all on the same page:National emergency but punch and knife a woman multiple times for rejecting you and get a curfew
EastEnders actor spared jail after slashing woman with knife
Harry Rafferty flew into a ‘rage’ after woman rejected his sexual advances
Man kills his wife in front of her two children:
‘Evil’ man jailed for strangling wife in front of TikTok lover
Aminan Rahman gaslit, manipulated, financially controlled and assaulted Suma Begum before he murdered her in a flat in east London, a court heard.
www.standard.co.uk
Man kills wife and daughter:
Epsom College headteacher said husband hit her before gun death, inquest hears
Emma Pattison told her sister on a phone call that her husband had hit her
www.standard.co.uk
Man kills partner:
Boyfriend admits killing young mother found dead in her car in Hackney
Gogoa Tape admitted responsibility for the death of his girlfriend Kennedi Westcarr-Sabaroche
www.standard.co.uk
I mean it's absolutely relentless. And feels like it's getting worse and worse.
story
Changing the facts
story
Changing the facts
More women and girls killed in 2022 even as overall homicide numbers fall, says new research from UNODC and UN Women
<p class="paragraph">Nearly 89,000 women and girls were killed intentionally in 2022 across the globe, says a new research brief, <a href="https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/briefs/Femicide_brief_2023.pdf">Gender-Related Killings of Women and Girls (Femicide/Feminicide)</a>, from...
unis.unvienna.org
story
Changing the facts
Scale of homicide and suicides by domestic abuse victims revealed
New report shows scale of domestic homicides and for the first time recorded an increase in suspected suicides by domestic abuse victims.
And men are most likely to be the murderers of both.
So it is getting worse. I means that's my sense but Christ.
story
Changing the facts
And men are most likely to be the murderers of both.
So it is getting worse. I means that's my sense but Christ.
Those figures aren’t directly comparable. And the larger number may be a fluke.
The report in the OP would suggest that things are getting worse but I’m not going to state it as a fact til I see more numbers.
Things are reported and recorded differently as time progresses. For example I don’t think suicide as a result of DV was included or even recognised until recently.
For me, the report form the UN is particularly significant: worldwide numbers of murdered women and children is going up even as homicide numbers are generally going down.
So women and children now form a larger percentage of a smaller number.
Something is badly wrong,
NB Just to be clear
Men are still being killed in higher numbers than women
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story
Changing the facts
More up to date information:
Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics
Analyses of information held within the Home Office Homicide Index, which contains detailed record-level information about each homicide recorded by police in England and Wales.
www.ons.gov.uk
Homicide rates in both sexes have been pretty flat for the last decade and come down a lot from the peak in the late mid 90s.
Lots of stats here: Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics
It says that domestic murders fell in the most recent year to the lowest level recorded although this figure might rise as more suspects are charged. That includes male victims as well though, there's probably a breakdown by sex if you dig into the spreadsheets. Pertinently it says:
Beat me to it.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Do you hear it too, though? What’s special about VAWG? What about the men and boys? More of them get killed.
They do.
I never know what to say to these people, except to ask who kills the men and boys.
And who kills the women and girls in their homes?
We need to say who kills, not only who gets killed (as if getting killed is bringing it on yourself).
Who kills?
(And, obviously, NAMALT, because some men resemble these remarks)
They do.
I never know what to say to these people, except to ask who kills the men and boys.
And who kills the women and girls in their homes?
We need to say who kills, not only who gets killed (as if getting killed is bringing it on yourself).
Who kills?
(And, obviously, NAMALT, because some men resemble these remarks)
story
Changing the facts
Yeah. Somehow it’s inherently necessary to add in stuff to cover the “what about the menz” angle even as we discuss these appalling numbers, in order to deflect the inevitable.
I think that’s a good-enough response bluescreen . Because if they don’t get it when you say that it’s like walking up a down escalator anyway.
I think that’s a good-enough response bluescreen . Because if they don’t get it when you say that it’s like walking up a down escalator anyway.
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