Meat eaters are destroying the planet, warns WWF report

[8ball]

There have been serious discussions about reintroducing them to snack on deer.

Wolf reintroduction to Scotland: public attitudes and consequences for red deer management

Reintroductions are important tools for the conservation of individual species, but recently more attention has been paid to the restoration of ecosystem function, and to the importance of carrying out a full risk assessment prior to any reintroduction ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Is there a much greater benefit to that than having humans snacking on the deer?

I’m up for helping out here.

 

[Larry Noppius]

This is incredible.

It perfectly exposes the roots your delusions and dishonesty for anyone to see.

In your mind, anyone who questions your misrepresentation of any study is actually arguing with the scientists involved in the study, who in your mind are on your side, and hence you can disparage any questioners’ qualifications by comparing them to the original study authors.

It’s kind of Trumpian.

A study he can not even provide in the first place. Has anyone actually seen that EPIC-Oxford study yet?

 

[JimW]

And woolly mammoths, please.

Come on, you'd never manage a whole one.

 

[editor]

It perfectly exposes the roots your delusions and dishonesty for anyone to see.

I didn't understand your point and it still makes no sense to me. And fuck your disgusting personal abuse.

 

[editor]

A study he can not even provide in the first place. Has anyone actually seen that EPIC-Oxford study yet?

I said I anecdotally agreed with the findings reproduced in that article that you seem unable to read for yourself. I never ever claimed to have read the entire thing - that was another of your dishonest distortions - neither did I base any big point on the study. It was a one-line personal observation about people staying with veggie diets.

 

[CNT36]

Is there a much greater benefit to that than having humans snacking on the deer?

I’m up for helping out here.

The culls ain't cheap. Iirc there are laws about selling wild deer meat.

 

[JimW]

The culls ain't cheap. Iirc there are laws about selling wild deer meat.

Yes,I understood it was disease worries too.

 

[8ball]

I didn't understand your point and it still makes no sense to me. And fuck your disgusting personal abuse.

That you don’t understand it doesn’t surprise me, still disappoints, but I’m past surprise now.

It’s not abuse either, merely a description of your behaviour.

I hope the penny drops soon and you can engage in some kind of productive discussion. There are a few green shoots if you look out for them.

 

[editor]

That you don’t understand it doesn’t surprise me, still disappoints, but I’m past surprise now.

It’s not abuse either, merely a description of your behaviour.

I hope the penny drops soon and you can engage in some kind of productive discussion. There are a few green shoots if you look out for them.

Why don't you just make your huge important point instead of trying to be some insufferable, abusive smartarse?

Actually no forget it. I'm not interested in your patronising bullshit today, thanks.

 

[8ball]

The culls ain't cheap. Iirc there are laws about selling wild deer meat.

Yes,I understood it was disease worries too.

So too expensive for there to be demand for it to become a pretty green food source. Shame, but hey ho.

 

[WouldBe]

Come on, you'd never manage a whole one.

Get a larger freezer.

 

[Larry Noppius]

Yep. There's been appalling nonsense published in newspapers like the Guardain about Covid19 recently. Anything that gives a sensational headline just gets reported unquestioned, when often just a little bit of due diligence by the journo would tell them that what they're reporting clearly has major problems with it.

I rate New Scientist as an exception to that. They don't always get it right in what they choose to report, but they invariably report what they do choose accurately.

Specialized science reporters such as New Scientist are indeed relatively better than generic mass media (which are in turn relatively better than activist blogs like PlantBasedNews, which are in turn relatively better than conspiracy nutters like Cowspiracy and What The Health) but they still mess up every now and then and, more importantly, are still no substitute for the actual science. In this day and age most primary scientific sources are available online, just use them rather than a secondary media reporting.

 

[Funky_monks]

Yes,I understood it was disease worries too.

As far as I'm aware, whoever is doing the shooting has to have a food handling certificate, and go on a course.
They should have access to a suitable chiller and process the deer adhering to proper hygiene practices.

My ex neighbour (I've moved) was responsible for the deer cull on a 3000 acre New Forest estate. They had a refrigerated cold room and processing facilities. He'd been an abbotoir worker at one time and was suitably efficient at processing the animals.
They went to London high end butcher's shops I believe.
I think his cull was 250/annum

 

[8ball]

Why don't you just make your huge important point instead of trying to be some insufferable, abusive smartarse?

Actually no forget it. I'm not interested in your patronising bullshit today, thanks.

Others understand it fine. I said it pretty plainly but if someone wants to paraphrase that’s fine with me.

If anyone is confused I’m happy to elaborate, but I don’t think clarity is the issue here.

 

[WouldBe]

Yes,I understood it was disease worries too.

Which is why meat has to be inspected in slaughter houses to check it's fit for human consumption. You would still need to do those checks on wild deer before you could sell it.

 

[editor]

Others understand it fine. I said it pretty plainly but if someone wants to paraphrase that’s fine with me.

If anyone is confused I’m happy to elaborate, but I don’t think clarity is the issue here.

Perhaps in your keenness to continue your showboating, you missed this very clear statement:

"Actually no forget it. I'm not interested in your patronising bullshit today, thanks."

 

[8ball]

Which is why meat has to be inspected in slaughter houses to check it's fit for human consumption. You would still need to do those checks on wild deer before you could sell it.

Hence the argument that the cull for food is limited, so get some wolves to help out, I guess. I read about other potential ecological benefits but don’t recall what they were right now.

 

[8ball]

Perhaps in your keenness to continue your showboating, you missed this very clear statement:

"Actually no forget it. I'm not interested in your patronising bullshit today, thanks."

Yes, dear.

 

[Larry Noppius]

I said I anecdotally agreed with the findings reproduced in that article that you seem unable to read for yourself.

I've read it, it was a good laugh, especially where they were attempting to criticize the subsample selection methods. You've yet to show that the claims in that article are a reproduction of the findings of the study they claim it to be.

I never ever claimed to have read the entire thing - that was another of your dishonest distortions - neither did I base any big point on the study. It was a one-line personal observation about people staying with veggie diets.

You claimed that the findings of the Oxford study confirmed your anecdotal experience, yet you haven't seen the findings of the Oxford study...then how do you know they confirm your experience? All you have is claims by an activist blog about what the findings of a particular study are purported to be. You blindly believe those claims to be an accurate reproduction, none of us is under any requirement to share that belief.

 

[WouldBe]

Hence the argument that the cull for food is limited,

Yet that is what happens on large estates. OK the deer aren't truly wild as they are restricted as to where they can roam but you can still get venison from 'wild' deer.

 

[8ball]

Yet that is what happens on large estates. OK the deer aren't truly wild as they are restricted as to where they can roam but you can still get venison from 'wild' deer.

Aye. Very occasional treat for me.

 

[Spymaster]

You've yet to show that the claims in that article are a reproduction of the findings of the study they claim it to be ...

All you have is claims by an activist blog about what the findings of a particular study are purported to be. You blindly believe those claims to be an accurate reproduction, none of us is under any requirement to share that belief.

This point keeps being made, to no avail.

 

[8ball]

Not our first rodeo etc. etc.

 

[Funky_monks]

Yet that is what happens on large estates. OK the deer aren't truly wild as they are restricted as to where they can roam but you can still get venison from 'wild' deer.

They certainly aren't within the New Forest - there are cattle grids to keep the ponies and cattle within the national park, but deer can easily jump them

 

[JimW]

As far as I'm aware, whoever is doing the shooting has to have a food handling certificate, and go on a course.
They should have access to a suitable chiller and process the deer adhering to proper hygiene practices.

My ex neighbour (I've moved) was responsible for the deer cull on a 3000 acre New Forest estate. They had a refrigerated cold room and processing facilities. He'd been an abbotoir worker at one time and was suitably efficient at processing the animals.
They went to London high end butcher's shops I believe.
I think his cull was 250/annum

Didn't realise they were even attempting it. Was going off talking to locals in Scotland but that was years ago.

 

[8ball]

Just hope these wolves are clued up on humane killing practices and can deliver a quick, clean shot.

 

[peterkro]

And given that the population continues to increase and needs to be fed?
How would you make up the shortfall in nutrition currently produced using animals on nearly half the available agricultural land in the UK?

There's already masses of biomass grown to be fed into anaerobic digesters (usually maize) in the UK, taking up land that would otherwise be used to produce food.

Also, in order for these new forests to actually sequester the carbon, youd need to bury the timber, because as soon as you use it or it breaks down on the surface, the carbon it sequesters is back in the atmosphere.

Europe is becoming very good at reducing food based emissions, but sadly, a lot of this involves exporting food production abroad.

Why should the third world produce our food so we can feel smug about our environmental record? Especially when our own landmass is both resilient and incredibly fertile?

I'm not sure if you are referring to the world or just the U.K. ? Population growth is not a major problem at the moment and as we all know education and economic advancement (especially of women ) is the key to having a non runaway population growth.
You appear to be taking data from the powers that be under the present orthodoxy. Arable land is on a continuum it's not black and white. Technology advances in food production are many

I quite literally told you that I lecture on Agricultural science degrees, what do you think university academics do when they aren't lecturing?

Talk bollocks on Internet forums.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Specialized science reporters such as New Scientist are indeed relatively better than generic mass media (which are in turn relatively better than activist blogs like PlantBasedNews, which are in turn relatively better than conspiracy nutters like Cowspiracy and What The Health) but they still mess up every now and then and, more importantly, are still no substitute for the actual science. In this day and age most primary scientific sources are available online, just use them rather than a secondary media reporting.

Oh sure, for something of particular interest, which is indeed what I do, and publications like NS will always provide links. But not everything can be of particular interest, so you do need to be able to have a degree of trust in the reporter's qualifications, honesty and rigour. Something like NS has a reputation to uphold, which helps - for any claim of substance, they will always contact at least one other expert in the field to find out what they think about it. Where I'm often left shaking my head is with the misrepresentations, misunderstandings and lack of checking (whether wilful or accidental) you find in the generic 'quality' press like the Guardian, etc (and all too often the BBC). There, you really need to follow the links every time, so they're of limited value.

 

[8ball]

Where I'm often left shaking my head is with the misrepresentations, misunderstandings and lack of checking (whether wilful or accidental) you find in the generic 'quality' press like the Guardian, etc (and all too often the BBC).

They are both generally terrible when it comes to anything science-based, though the Guardian is worse. NS is fine as a light magazine for the casually interested. Have seen some corkers in there, though haven't looked at it for years.

I find it's the general area of psychology where you get the real zingers.

 

[butcher]

My ex neighbour (I've moved) was responsible for the deer cull on a 3000 acre New Forest estate. They had a refrigerated cold room and processing facilities. He'd been an abbotoir worker at one time and was suitably efficient at processing the animals.
They went to London high end butcher's shops I believe.
I think his cull was 250/annum

Beaulieu?