Mark Fisher on privilege, twitter, commentariat, etc.

[Delroy Booth]

I think his first law is actually spot on.

Yeah I agree I think that bit was right. Reducing fighting oppression to getting your mates to modify their behaviours in certain radical spaces. Individualising things that are structural - with a bit of lipservice that gets paid to structural analysis here and there amongst more thoughtful advocates - but the end result is usually limited to stopping someone appearing in certain radical spaces, banning certain words in those spaces, calling out opponents for using those words in the media etc it's all very individualistic. And narrow. It looks like in-group etiquette rather than an attempt to tackle oppression in a systemic way.

But I don't think that's a particularly original observation, and I definitely don't think he's expressed himself very clearly. If one of the main critiques of the liberal neo-anarchists is that they have this terrible language then making that sort of point whilst using his own sort of academic jargon undermines it a lot.

And the stuff about Brand is terrible too. I'm not sold on Brand at all to be honest and I don't have any problem with people putting him under scrutiny. I think that being critical over his sexual politics, or his previous endorsements of David Icke, is a much healthier response to Brand than of getting carried away with the fact a celebrity has expressed an extremely vague interest in revolution. And what "demolition" of Paxman? And since when was Paxman this giant intellectual figure to be toppled? Nah I don't get any of that.

I noticed a real Activist describe the article on twitter as "the nadir of MRA leftism" which is incredibly disingenuous and unfair on Fisher.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No it's not, it's the exact opposite - it's the old mole, always there, but only seen now and again. What does petit bourgeoisie mean here? Does it just mean classically middle class? I think it must - why not say that?

If he's using it to mean "classical middle class" then the boy needs to go back to Marx, study, and shut the fuck up.

 

[ViolentPanda]

some people are better at faking it than others, aren't they?

<insert obligatory "your mum" joke here>

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Hearing various things about him being a scab too, voting against strike action, etc. Anyone know anything more?

He mentioned on his blog several years ago that he had effectively been made redundant for unionising his workplace. So this would surprise me too.

Not read the piece yet.

He's always championed the odd sci-fi constructions: cold rationalism, hauntology, hyperstition...

 

[J Ed]

I noticed a real Activist describe the article on twitter as "the nadir of MRA leftism" which is incredibly disingenuous and unfair on Fisher.

It's like words don't have any actual meaning anymore

 

[Delroy Booth]

It's like words don't have any actual meaning anymore

I know I couldn't work that out. MRA? Seriously? Is that just a catch all term for anyone who voices criticism or dislike of a certain strain of identity politics?

I mean fucking hell it's not a great article, loads of scope for criticism imo, but knee-jerk dismissal of him an MRA? That's daft imo.

 

[Nice one]

Yes. Now what? Are you accusing me of not being w/c? On what grounds?

What does it matter what i think about your background, what do i care. You introduced the jargon of authencity, always playing the class card, as if it matters.

If you want to ask me why i have a problem with privileged middle class people pretending to be working class then the answer is simple resentment.

 

[ska invita]

I noticed a real Activist describe the article on twitter as "the nadir of MRA leftism" which is incredibly disingenuous and unfair on Fisher.

what is mra leftism?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

what is mra leftism?

Men's rights activist leftism. There is of course no such thing. It's just a way of dismissing him as a misogynist without actually having to provide evidence.

 

[Red Cat]

Who is he?

 

[butchersapron]

What does it matter what i think about your background, what do i care. You introduced the jargon of authencity, always playing the class card, as if it matters.

If you want to ask me why i have a problem with privileged middle class people pretending to be working class then the answer is simple resentment.

So, you bottled it.

 

[Nice one]

So, you bottled it.

me and mark fisher both it seems

 

[butchersapron]

me and mark fisher both it seems

Think he'd have you in the private school smearer tent.

 

[Nice one]

Yeah I agree I think that bit was right. Reducing fighting oppression to getting your mates to modify their behaviours in certain radical spaces. Individualising things that are structural - with a bit of lipservice that gets paid to structural analysis here and there amongst more thoughtful advocates - but the end result is usually limited to stopping someone appearing in certain radical spaces, banning certain words in those spaces, calling out opponents for using those words in the media etc it's all very individualistic. And narrow. It looks like in-group etiquette rather than an attempt to tackle oppression in a systemic way.

you're right but i think it goes a little beyond that. It's created space, intellectual and ideological as opposed to just physical, that is so tightly policed it effectively demands complete compliance or instant exclusion. It's interesting to see how easily the language of privilege theory was adopted by anarchist groups and the class constituency of those groups. It is about the middle classes (whether it's those who occupy the vampire's castle, mark fisher and his academic colleagues or the central committee of the radical left party) framing the political discourse and the only way working class people get a look in is by embracing and adopting the dominant narrative.

I think what we are seeing now is a battle royale for the ownership of the dominant political narrative for radical groups.

 

[smokedout]

so step outside them, let it wither, there's other stuff going on

 

[smokedout]

isn't it better to have an anarchist current within a working class movement then trying to save a social scene that was on its last legs ten years ago and shows no real sign of bursting into life anytime soon - and look around, protests against the bedroom tax, atos, disability cuts all over the UK,everywhere on the net, there is a working class movement as small as it is, acting outside of labour, the unions, the trots all of them, and as small as it is, I havent seen this level of organisation genuinely coming from the bottom up in my adult lifetime, its not all doom and gloom.

 

[LiamO]

Who is Mark Fisher?

He's not that boring welsh cunt who used to be in The Leninist is he?

The level of conceited Walter-Mittyism required to sign off with 'What is to be done' suggests he might be?

 

[Delroy Booth]

you're right but i think it goes a little beyond that. It's created space, intellectual and ideological as opposed to just physical, that is so tightly policed it effectively demands complete compliance or instant exclusion. It's interesting to see how easily the language of privilege theory was adopted by anarchist groups and the class constituency of those groups. It is about the middle classes (whether it's those who occupy the vampire's castle, mark fisher and his academic colleagues or the central committee of the radical left party) framing the political discourse and the only way working class people get a look in is by embracing and adopting the dominant narrative.

I think that's a serious problem though - sometimes I feel like there there is no place or role at all for a working class white person to play other than as an uncritically obedient cheerleader barred from expressing any criticism. I couldn't be a good ally based on my temprement and disposition towards arguing the toss alone, which is a bit of shame (don't worry I'll live ) but it's just not healthy that any internal debate is within such a restrictive set of rules.

And perhaps that's deliberate, perhaps some really don't a want movement where those people play a role, which is of course their perogatve but it's a bit much to then berate the same people you've consciously written off like this for not getting with the program? What do you expect?

I think what we are seeing now is a battle royale for the ownership of the dominant political narrative for radical groups.

Tbh if that's the case then I wouldn't worry about it. The radical groups of the UK are basically moribund. Utterly irrelevant and marginal.

The left as it stands doesn't really matter to the oppressed multitude, so if this is the direction it goes in it basically amounts to a lot of meetings in London will take place with different jargon, a few different faces, and carry on where the old left finished being irrelevant. On the level of everyday life it won't matter one bit.

I'm at college at the moment and I interact daily with a dizzying array of people from all sorts of backgrounds and to be honest I haven't heard this from my friends there. It's something i've encounter overwhelmingly on the internet and mainly around the small and incestuous political left scene, not a huge wider movement of people. It wouldn't be so small and so focused on it's relationship with the far-left groups if it truly was, it would be taking place in all of society not just within that narrow group.

I expect we'll see a lot of replies to Fishers article and I expect to see it torn to bits. There's lots of it that's basically wrong (Brand, Jones, way he defines class etc) and the bits that are right are fairly obvious stuff that's been dressed up in fancy autonomist Cool Lecturer language and Vampire Castle's and all the rest of it. Shouldn't a rule be if you want to do a criticism of these things try and do it in a more straightforward way? Or do what I do and just rant because it might not be an edifying spectacle but at least it's mildly entertaining.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Who is Mark Fisher?

He's not that boring welsh cunt who used to be in The Leninist is he?

The level of conceited Walter-Mittyism required to sign off with 'What is to be done' suggests he might be?

PS. if it is you, I'd just like to add... we all shagged your missus... and she said you were a really shit ride.

That was Mark Fischer.

 

[barney_pig]

I want a vampire castle for Christmas

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I hear Lego are going to do a tie in, including the Legoland I am in You insurrection playset with Laurie Penny minifig

 

[J Ed]

I'm at college at the moment and I interact daily with a dizzying array of people from all sorts of backgrounds and to be honest I haven't heard this from my friends there. It's something i've encounter overwhelmingly on the internet and mainly around the small and incestuous political left scene, not a huge wider movement of people. It wouldn't be so small and so focused on it's relationship with the far-left groups if it truly was, it would be taking place in all of society not just within that narrow group.

This is so obviously true and yet not only is this unacknowledged by them, privilege theorists seem to claim or assume that intersectionalism and privilege theory is subscribed to not only by every woman, black person and so on but every single oppressed individual in history. Total lack of self-awareness, but I think that total lack of self-awareness is required to buy into this nonsense.

 

[JimW]

I hear Lego are going to do a tie in, including the Legoland I am in You insurrection playset with Laurie Penny minifig

She ought to press for this; would allow her to honestly claim she'd been involved in something constructive for once.

 

[Nice one]

so step outside them, let it wither, there's other stuff going on

haven't touched anything anarchist for over a year. One day at a time

 

[barney_pig]

I hear Lego are going to do a tie in, including the Legoland I am in You insurrection playset with Laurie Penny minifig

They really, really do

 

[barney_pig]

Laurie too!

 

[smokedout]

They really, really do

I bought that for my kid last Christmas (ahead of the curve)

 

[treelover]

you're right but i think it goes a little beyond that. It's created space, intellectual and ideological as opposed to just physical, that is so tightly policed it effectively demands complete compliance or instant exclusion. It's interesting to see how easily the language of privilege theory was adopted by anarchist groups and the class constituency of those groups. It is about the middle classes (whether it's those who occupy the vampire's castle, mark fisher and his academic colleagues or the central committee of the radical left party) framing the political discourse and the only way working class people get a look in is by embracing and adopting the dominant narrative.

I think what we are seeing now is a battle royale for the ownership of the dominant political narrative for radical groups.

bang on, but its not new,

 

[rekil]

She ought to press for this; would allow her to honestly claim she'd been involved in something constructive for once.

This looks good.

Arts Emergency ‏@artsemergency

Join people like @pennyred @jakechapmaniac & @bonn1egreer & help create privilege for people without privilege! http://e-activist.com/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=1789&ea.campaign.id=23596

We run a national ‘alternative’ Old Boy Network that aims to create privilege for people without privilege and counter the myth that universities, and in particular arts degrees, are the domain of the middle and upper classes.

Alternative, like grunge.

 

[DotCommunist]

why is there a lego penny, what is happening to reality