Mark Fisher on privilege, twitter, commentariat, etc.

[butchersapron]

If we are going to get past the twitter specifics, its probably best to get past the Brand specifics too. As a general rule, starting by raising dodgy opinions privately and respectfully rather than going straight to public denunciation is a reasonable approach, if your goal isn't actually about policing the boundaries of the in group.

But I do think that the twitter/Brand specifics are quite useful to look at, because the response was particularly intense and reached particularly bizarre conclusions.

That depends entirely on where when and who have the dodgy opinions. There is no getting past that we're talking about brand here.

 

[butchersapron]

Moral: Be excellent to each other and owen jones.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

That depends entirely on where when and who have the dodgy opinions.

Yes. But while Fisher is rather generous in who he'd extend that to (to put it mildly), the milieu he's talking about extend it only to close personal friends, if even that. Because there is only in group defining, rather than any sense of a political movement, there's a drive to make pariahs.

There is no getting past that we're talking about brand here.

In the same way there's no getting around that we are talking about twitter here.

 

[butchersapron]

Was an interesting read - he threatens to take on the middle class witch-hunt types but doesn't really. You need to pick on an individual then another then another then another to do that. Just saying they represent a trend is just saying they represent a trend. It's not taking them on. I don't think it's worth the candle myself. The sort of solidarity he is after is one i remember from my labour party days - we were all mates and our party was shit. There needs to be a bit more than that - the pubs i grew up in, also full of w/c camaraderie but full of dickheads, sexism and violence. I prefer that to puritan finger pointing but, there is no need for it to be one or the other.

 

[butchersapron]

Why is he so scared of openly saying middle class though? Mark?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Think he's now left twitter btw, for predictable reasons. So perhaps best seen as a resignation letter.

 

[butchersapron]

The comments are interesting point 4 of john bull's response demonstrates these people confusion over class - oh is it how people describe themselves? Attacks Fisher for using class as an identity then endorses the birthing text of class as just one competing identity. S/he also says post-grad. You just knows it, and i know what side i'm on in this one john.

 

[treelover]

But the people spreading that seem to be the Novara Media lot, who are just as shite and want to be the British Jacobin. They can fuck off too.

why are they crap?, some good accessible stuff on that site.

 

[caleb]

why are they crap?, some good accessible stuff on that site.

Because they have shit politics. Not very difficult.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Because they have shit politics. Not very difficult.

I haven't listened to the DeBlasio episode, so I not going to argue with you about it. Is there any other evidence for the prosecution?

 

[Delroy Booth]

It's alright Novara I think their hearts are in the right places but it's scene-y, coolest kids at a warehouse rave stuff. Very much in the student politics ghetto.

 

[butchersapron]

libcom - on the radio.

 

[caleb]

It's alright Novara I think their hearts are in the right places but it's scene-y, coolest kids at a warehouse rave stuff. Very much in the student politics ghetto.

The problem isn't that it's "scene-y, coolest kids at a warehouse rave stuff" (I don't think they are), it's their politics. I mean, listen to the de Blasio episode - sorry to keep banging on about it - it's atrocious, but it wouldn't be half as bad if they were open about where they're coming from, instead of dressing it up in ultra-left, autonomist garb.

And the whole "dissent entrepreneur" shit was Jacobin before Jacobin even existed.

 

[Nice one]

The Vampires’ Castle... is driven by a priest’s desire to excommunicate and condemn, an academic-pedant’s desire to be the first to be seen to spot a mistake, and a hipster’s desire to be one of the in-crowd.

 

[butchersapron]

Last free man in your treehouse

 

[Nice one]

a one man vlad's retreat

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

The Vladguard?

 

[butchersapron]

The Vampires’ Castle... is driven by a priest’s desire to excommunicate and condemn, an academic-pedant’s desire to be the first to be seen to spot a mistake, and a hipster’s desire to be one of the in-crowd.

What's the smiley for smugly pointing to the pieces armour and other peoples array of attack?

 

[Lo Siento.]

libcom - on the radio.

Libcom 10 years ago on the radio. The libcom lot are all proper grown-ups now...

 

[Awesome Wells]

What's wrong with the people's assembly?
Why do they deserve criticism?

 

[Delroy Booth]

What's wrong with the people's assembly?
Why do they deserve criticism?

Because it's basically too deeply tied to the Labour party to be effectively any use at stopping austerity.

And even if some grassroots campaigning groups find it useful, or otherwise apolitical people who get involved in stuff through it, that still remains the case.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Because it's basically too deeply tied to the Labour party to be effectively any use at stopping austerity.

And even if some grassroots campaigning groups find it useful, or otherwise apolitical people who get involved in stuff through it, that still remains the case.

Tied to labour? How?

 

[isvicthere?]

Did Paxman do two interviews with Brand? In the one I watched no "destroying" went on.

 

[Sue]

Who?

 

[Nice one]

What's the smiley for smugly pointing to the pieces armour and other peoples array of attack?

Other peoples?! The vampire's castle has many rooms, and indeed many threads.

I think fisher is trying to articulate a particular currency emerging from within the left political framework. Yes he often does it clumsily and offers himself little favours, but he obviously feels things need to be anchored back down to a political realness - 'class'. The emerging currency is basically the middle class fighting amongst itself not only over the space that radical left occupies but very the language it uses, and how that language confers the right of entry, partcipation and status in that environment. This new language which often comes fully formed and codified from the start (just like traditional left analysis in fact but without the dead weight of history tieing it down) is being used as a tool of manipulation which allows those who adopt it a greater stake, more credibility and thus more leverage within a particular environment. This is where the conflict arises. The fact that this is all being played out on twitter/facebook/social media is the novelty aspect that kind of reinforces fisher's point.

I think his first law is actually spot on.

 

[butchersapron]

I think you posting sort of proves the point then - you, ás ever are fighting to both prove your own w/.c authenticity whilst arguing that it's a near universal situation - everyone is authentic - apart from the people you don't like . Not sure we need telling the rest of it.

 

[Nice one]

I think you posting sort of proves the point then - you, ás ever are fighting to both prove your own w/.c authenticity whilst arguing that it's a near universal situation - everyone is authentic - apart from the people you don't like . Not sure we need telling the rest of it.

you as ever are still arguing in the pubs you grew up in

 

[butchersapron]

Good place to start.

Everyone is working class apart from the people i think are faking it. Do you see the problem? No.

 

[Nice one]

Good place to start.
Everyone is working class apart from the people i think are faking it. Do you see the problem? No.

some people are better at faking it than others, aren't they?

 

[butchersapron]

some people are better at faking it than others, aren't they?

Yes. Now what? Are you accusing me of not being w/c? On what grounds?