Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

[LDC]

i feel great concern for refugees on the move through europe.

Indeed, I think in terms of most impacted (outside immediate families and friends of those killed) they're the ones most likely to feel the repercussions of this attack in the coming months.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

France imposing border controls. Schengen is finished

 

[Mr.Bishie]

i feel great concern for refugees on the move through europe.

And of the 8 million Muslims residing in France. The French far right must be frothing at their bits.

 

[teqniq]

Paris witness: Simon Kuper in the Stade de France - FT.com

 

[chilango]

different muslim reslonses to different contexts different shocker.

...and yet there is both continuity in personnel and this is the thread of narrative used as the creation myth of (western at least) jihadis.

You could chuck Chechnya, Bosnia and Somalia in there too.

But, like I said, I'm just thinking out loud in response to the posts saying it's about Palestine, or it's about the West invading Iraq or whatever.

 

[Mr Moose]

While this is undoubtedly a factor i don't think it is the only reason why daesh (if indeed it is them) exist let alone do this shit

Yes, as one factor is the western favouring of fundamentalism as an opposition to the USSR and to secure petroleum from the gulf.

 

[redsquirrel]

John Rentoul, ed of the Indy, used last night to have a pop at Corbyn!

How so, for not backing Cameron's plans for bombing Syria or over the Jihadi John stuff?

Plenty of slugs - Cohen, Aaronovitch & co as well as Cameron and Osbourne - are going to use this to make the case for Syria and the like.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Plenty of slugs - Cohen, Aaronovitch & co as well as Cameron and Osbourne - are going to use this to make the case for Syria and the like.

Didn't work last time but this time we'll get it!

 

[Bernie Gunther]

...and yet there is both continuity in personnel and this is the thread of narrative used as the creation myth of (western at least) jihadis.

You could chuck Chechnya, Bosnia and Somalia in there too.

But, like I said, I'm just thinking out loud in response to the posts saying it's about Palestine, or it's about the West invading Iraq or whatever.

Perhaps there's also a common thread of assorted state actors (Western and otherwise) supporting, tolerating and/or trying to use these groups for various differing ends, as well as on other occasions dropping bombs on them and anyone unlucky enough to be in their vicinity.

 

[rekil]

John Rentoul, ed of the Indy, used last night to have a pop at Corbyn!

Ugh. Sick bastard.

 

[Pickman's model]

...and yet there is both continuity in personnel and this is the thread of narrative used as the creation myth of (western at least) jihadis.

You could chuck Chechnya, Bosnia and Somalia in there too.

But, like I said, I'm just thinking out loud in response to the posts saying it's about Palestine, or it's about the West invading Iraq or whatever.

i would be more impressed by your analysis if you'd mentioned milestones, or looked at the alternative movements eg pflp, fatah which weren't islamist - the secularalternatives to hamas, aq, is etc. not sure raf first, second etc generations really comparable. what's happened is secular and or progressive movements sidelined for a range of reasons .

 

[brogdale]

It's not uniquely vulnerable

Sadly true, but it does, in some respects, represent a more likely opportunity for jihadi murderers. Amongst the Schengen states (open borders) France probably has the most pro-active anti-jihadi foreign policy in Africa, the Maghreb and Syria/Iraq. Paris obviously also has a significant islamic population, often alienated in the suburban estates, from which jihadi radicalisation could produce potential killers. Added to which, domestically, the French state has enacted some laws perceived as anti-islam such as the 'burka ban'.

 

[bimble]

Perhaps there's also a common thread of assorted state actors (Western and otherwise) supporting, tolerating and/or trying to use these groups for various differing ends, as well as on other occasions dropping bombs on them and anyone unlucky enough to be in their vicinity.

Yes. Book recommendation.
Not a cheery read but, what you're saying .

 

[Mr Moose]

I would hate to be Muslim, or Muslim looking, in France tonight.

The previous atrocities in the West have not spawned mass attacks against Muslims. Any incidents are too many but the non-Muslim population isn't a baying mob waiting to pounce, not yet at least. We should continue to have faith in each other and how we live together.

 

[chilango]

i would be more impressed by your analysis if you'd mentioned milestones, or looked at the alternative movements eg pflp, fatah which weren't islamist - the secularalternatives to hamas, aq, is etc. not sure raf first, second etc generations really comparable. what's happened is secular and or progressive movements sidelined for a range of reasons .

It wasn't meant to be an analysis!

..but yes, this exactly the stuff we should be looking at.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sadly true, but it does, in some respects, represent a more likely opportunity for jihadi murderers. Amongst the Schengen states (open borders) France probably has the most pro-active anti-jihadi foreign policy in Africa, the Maghreb and Syria/Iraq. Paris obviously also has a significant islamic population, often alienated in the suburban estates, from which jihadi radicalisation could produce potential killers. Added to which, domestically, the French state has enacted some laws perceived as anti-islam such as the 'burka ban'.

schengen dead now

 

[Manter]

John Rentoul, ed of the Indy, used last night to have a pop at Corbyn!

Crisis brings out the best and the worst in people I guess.

 

[Pickman's model]

Crisis brings out the best and the worst in people I guess.

he comes from the good day to bury bad news new labour tradition

 

[laptop]

The previous atrocities in the West have not spawned mass attacks against Muslims. Any incidents are too many but the non-Muslim population isn't a baying mob waiting to pounce, not yet at least. We should continue to have faith in each other and how we live together.

I take it you don't "look muslim".

We hear about the cases of eejits attacking ppl who are Sikh or Hindu - if eejits get caught...

 

[Pickman's model]

The previous atrocities in the West have not spawned mass attacks against Muslims. Any incidents are too many but the non-Muslim population isn't a baying mob waiting to pounce, not yet at least. We should continue to have faith in each other and how we live together.

there weren't 10,000s of muslims on the move through europe at the time of course. stop 'fighting the last war'

 

[brogdale]

he comes from the good day to bury bad news new labour tradition

Also in that 'grand' NL tradition...this challenge offers the security state many opportunities to ratchet up their imposition. May will be rubbing her hands with glee.

 

[bimble]

We should continue to have faith in each other and how we live together.

We should. Still I'm glad I don't have to go out wearing a burqa or a headscarf today.

 

[Pickman's model]

Also in that 'grand' NL tradition...this challenge offers the security state many opportunities to ratchet up their imposition. May will be rubbing her hands with glee.

rubbing something with her hands - this is a securocrat wet dream.

 

[Pickman's model]

We should. Still I'm glad I don't have to go out wearing a burqa or a headscarf today.

a raincoat and hat more sensible today.

 

[brogdale]

We should. Still I'm glad I don't have to go out wearing a burqa or a headscarf today.

Highlighting an important distinction between London(UK) and Paris(France).

 

[brogdale]

Holy fuck! This clown claims to be a Corbyn advisor.

 

[brogdale]

Holy fuck! This clown claims to be a Corbyn advisor.

My bad...I think?

 

[Pickman's model]

Holy fuck! This clown claims to be a Corbyn advisor.

the p45 ought tohave been in the email if genuine

 

[bimble]

Looks like that's a hoax / fake account

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Holy fuck! This clown claims to be a Corbyn advisor.

Is it a real twitter account?