Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

[BigMoaner]

brilliant kebab, exactly the sort of "summery down the pub" thing that will get me started. cheers.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This personal info is irrelevant and against the rules. Please don't repeat.

How is it "against the rules" when dwyer has divulged this shit himself?
Oh, did he tell you he hadn't? What a surprise.

 

[editor]

How is it "against the rules" when dwyer has divulged this shit himself?
Oh, did he tell you he hadn't? What a surprise.

If you can show me where he as divulged this information here (and not is response to someone else bringing it up) then I will gladly retract the point. That said, his job really has absolutely fuck all to do with the tragic topic of this thread.

 

[Pickman's model]

If you can show me where he as divulged this information here (and not is response to someone else bringing it up) then I will gladly retract the point. That said, his job really has absolutely fuck all to do with the tragic topic of this thread.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think it is well recorded that on the Eastern front during WW2, amphetamines were a big deal amongst the Wehrmacht and the SS.

Something to take note of, I think.

They were used by all sides, not just "the Wehrmacht and the SS". The greatest use was among air crew.

 

[Pickman's model]

If you can show me where he as divulged this information here (and not is response to someone else bringing it up) then I will gladly retract the point. That said, his job really has absolutely fuck all to do with the tragic topic of this thread.

 

[andysays]

If you can show me where he as divulged this information here (and not is response to someone else bringing it up) then I will gladly retract the point. That said, his job really has absolutely fuck all to do with the tragic topic of this thread.

As a general point, not related to this particular case (because I don't know if the current individual under discussion has ever done this), what is the position on posters who have used their (supposed) professional or other status in an attempt to shut down argument or assert that they know better than anyone else, having that thrown back at them when they're found to be talking nonsense?

 

[camouflage]

brilliant kebab, exactly the sort of "summery down the pub" thing that will get me started. cheers.

Wouldn't trust that reply if I were you, anyone who implies Daesh is not attacking the SAA must be barking. How can Daesh be among the most successful fighting force in Syria and at the same time have some sort of scoundrels agreement with the primary opposition to the jihadists in Syria... hundreds of thousands of SAA have died in the war so far fighting Daesh (I don't like to call them the Islamic State or any permutation thereof). Don't mistake limitations in a war for some sort of agreement. Recently the SAA (the nations armed forces, Assads lot) were able to break a Daesh seige thats gone on for over 2 years because of the suppprt of the RuAF, Iranian troops and Hezbollah. Over 2 years... Syrias Stalingrad some are calling it. Just recently certain posters on this forum have also been assuring us that Russia is not interested in targeting Daesh, seems to be something of a go-to technique.

ETA: http://anonhq.com/putin-exposes-40-countries-that-finance-isis/

I chose this particular link because lol, anonhq... same story is easily found elswhere though. Not reported much in the media but the next day the USAF finally started bombing the trucks involved in transporting Daesh oil supplies to Turkey. Russia is Assads main ally.

 

[editor]

View attachment 79813

Either way, it is utterly irrelevant to this debate.

 

[Pickman's model]

Either way, it is utterly irrelevant to this debate.

thank you for your generous retraction.

its relevance was that the evidence produced to support a claim he made was was sparse and partial despite his background in academe: despite his day-job as you might say.

 

[Diamond]

They were used by all sides, not just "the Wehrmacht and the SS". The greatest use was among air crew.

Fantastically dumb way to try and score a point there through a single word that you tried to smuggle in - "just"

You must be tremendously bored.

 

[editor]

its relevance was that the evidence produced to support a claim he made was was sparse and partial despite his background in academe: despite his day-job as you might say.

No more ad hominems please. This debate is far too important.

 

[ViolentPanda]

As an ancillary point - it would be fascinating to read a comparison and contrast between the SS and ISIS on an operational basis, just in terms of development and leadership and so on

Pretty much the only operational similarities lie in the use of military hierarchy as the overall governing mechanism for disseminating strategy. As we know from the post-D-Day actions, and Barbarossa, the Waffen SS were mostly not suicidally-loyal to the regime or the regime's ideology, and their tactical deployment - as assault and defence troops reflected this. Neither was Himmler an al-Baghdadi

Right...

Genocide based on a perceived category - tick

Slavery - tick

Total world domination - tick

Interestingly, an economy that is based on conquest but fundamentally weak - tick

An imagined social group that will prevail - tick

Goebbels style media manipulation - tick

The last, is perversely the most important

So you're not comparing ISIS and the SS, you're comparing the Nazi dictatorship and ISIS.

 

[butchersapron]

in very broad terms?

IS, while undoubtedly Assads' enemy, is a much greater, and much more immediate enemy of the forces fighting Assad. not being stupid, he's used them as a snake the enemys bed.

he certainly released from prison people knew would go off to join IS, his armed forces have in the main not engaged IS, he and IS jointly control a significant lump of Syrias' oil production and distribution capacity and work together to ensure that that doesn't change.

in effect, Assad and IS have drawn a line in Syria and said 'this bits mine, that bits yours, we have the same enemies so lets concentrate on retaining our respective territories'. what would occur once those enemies have been defeated is probably something Assad is not comfortable with, but that is next weeks problem, not this weeks.

I'd add that the assad regime have been aiming to militarily weaken the non ISIS rebels in areas that the regime cannot take in order for them to then be taken over by ISIS, thus allowing the regime to sectarianise the conflict (even further) and so they can say to other states and powers, look, it's us or ISIS. To that end he has been barrel bombing and attacking civilians in these areas creating the majority of the refugee crisis that somehow has become tangled up in this debate. This policy of deliberate provoking and fostering of sectarianisation from assad dates from the earliest days of the uprising when it became clear that mass killing of protesters with knifes and so on wasn't going to deter them. Sort of stuff that may not be apparent to those who've not been following and often only presented with the choice of either assad or ISIS.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fantastically dumb way to try and score a point there through a single word that you tried to smuggle in - "just"

I haven't tried to smuggle it in or imply that the word "just" is yours. You mentioned that amphetamines were a big deal on the Eastern Front. I've merely corrected you that they were a big deal on all sides.

You must be tremendously bored.

Whenever I reply to a post of yours, I'm tremendously bored. Your posts induce a deep state of ennui.

 

[Pickman's model]

Whenever I reply to a post of yours, I'm tremendously bored. Your posts induce a deep state of ennui.

i find they have an emetick quality

 

[Diamond]

Pretty much the only operational similarities lie in the use of military hierarchy as the overall governing mechanism for disseminating strategy. As we know from the post-D-Day actions, and Barbarossa, the Waffen SS were mostly not suicidally-loyal to the regime or the regime's ideology, and their tactical deployment - as assault and defence troops reflected this. Neither was Himmler an al-Baghdadi


So you're not comparing ISIS and the SS, you're comparing the Nazi dictatorship and ISIS.

Wait a second - a few things going on here...

IS is not necessarily suicidal.

Nor did the rank and file correspond in any meaningful way to the Nazi leadership. There is a great novel on this but I can't remember the name right now, I will dig it out.

 

[Pickman's model]

Wait a second - a few things going on here...

IS is not necessarily suicidal.

Nor did the rank and file correspond in any meaningful way to the Nazi leadership. There is a great novel on this but I can't remember the name right now, I will dig it out.

yes, go and do that. see how long you can make it take.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Wait a second - a few things going on here...

IS is not necessarily suicidal.

Nor did the rank and file correspond in any meaningful way to the Nazi leadership. There is a great novel on this but I can't remember the name right now, I will dig it out.

You've now had 3 minutes to realise the error in the above paragraph. Have you clocked it yet?

 

[butchersapron]

ETA: http://anonhq.com/putin-exposes-40-countries-that-finance-isis/

I chose this particular link because lol, anonhq... same story is easily found elswhere though. Not reported much in the media but the next day the USAF finally started bombing the trucks involved in transporting Daesh oil supplies to Turkey. Russia is Assads main ally.

40 countries that have individuals that have funded ISIS in them would be a more accurate title.

And what would also be more accurate would be reconsigning the Operation Tidal Wave II started well before this astonishing revelation from Putin that individuals had given ISIS money (a fact well established with serious research years ago). Not everything is a reaction to superman.

 

[camouflage]

40 countries that have individuals that have funded ISIS in them would be a more accurate title.

And what would also be more accurate would be reconsigning the Operation Tidal Wave II started well before this astonishing revelation from Putin that individuals had given ISIS money (a fact well established with serious research years ago). Not everything is a reaction to superman.

What's Clark got to do with this? Anyway my point was specifically about the oil trade, though yes there's also finally being more noise made re how funds are being raised in support of Daesh (Corbyn for example).

 

[butchersapron]

What's Clark got to do with this? Anyway my point was specifically about the oil trade.

What do you think i said and linked to in support of?

 

[D'wards]

Horrible timeline of the Bataclan attack
'It looked like a battlefield': witnesses recount Bataclan horror

 

[camouflage]

What do you think i said and linked to in support of?

Dunno Pet-left, I tend to scan past your posts as one does hurrying by a multicoloured splash on a friday night. Hope I didn't tread in anything.

 

[butchersapron]

Dunno Pet-left, I tend to scan past your posts as one does hurrying past a multicoloured splash on a friday night.

I suspect that's how you deal with pretty much all texts. Maybe that's why you keep on running into trouble.

 

[camouflage]

I suspect that's how you deal with pretty much all texts. Maybe that's why you keep on running into trouble.

Treading in stuff? Yeah it happens.

 

[butchersapron]

Treading in stuff? Yeah it happens.

You don't just tread in it, you wallow in it and then spread it all over everywhere else.

 

[camouflage]

I'd add that the assad regime have been aiming to militarily weaken the non ISIS rebels in areas that the regime cannot take in order for them to then be taken over by ISIS, thus allowing the regime to sectarianise the conflict (even further) and so they can say to other states and powers, look, it's us or ISIS. To that end he has been barrel bombing and attacking civilians in these areas creating the majority of the refugee crisis that somehow has become tangled up in this debate. This policy of deliberate provoking and fostering of sectarianisation from assad dates from the earliest days of the uprising when it became clear that mass killing of protesters with knifes and so on wasn't going to deter them. Sort of stuff that may not be apparent to those who've not been following and often only presented with the choice of either assad or ISIS.

probably more chunks of carrot.

 

[J Ed]

It's a bit weird that all the corporations and stuff still have French flags up on their social media, websites etc

 

[butchersapron]

It's a bit weird that all the corporations and stuff still have French flags up on their social media, websites etc

Anthem before all the football this weekend as well.