Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

[Yuwipi Woman]

My mum and dad went to Paris for their golden wedding and someone tried to nick my mum's handbag somewhere near the arc de triumph or whatever they call it. She started a tug of war and then said to him in the loud scary voice only she can do (I'm breaking into a cold sweat now just thinking about it lol) 'FUCK. OFF.' My dad just stood there aghast, not quite believing what he was seeing, as the robbing prick let go of the bag and legged it. I don't blame him though to be fair

This is a known scientific phenomen called "THE MOM VOICE." It is indeed scary.

 

[coley]

A good start would not be to repeat the mistakes of the past; whether that is making token responses in order to make a political point (eg: plotting to take part in a bombing campaign that already has sixteen other nations, almost all of which have committed more force than we would), or acquiescing in events that destroy positive moves in the region (like the utter lack of fucks given when Morsi was kicked out and his supporters butchered, despite the clear electoral victories he obtained), or even the continual attempts to belittle diplomatic efforts, even though those same efforts have prevented at least once huge mistake (the failed bomb Assad campaign a few years ago) and are behind the emerging coalition against IS that we see today, as well as the lowering of tensions between the West and Iran. Some acknowledgement from the political class that Western policy in the region since the invasion of Afghanistan has been an unmitigated disaster, and legal consequences for those who were responsible, would not go amiss either.

Sadly having watched the Commons debate this afternoon, I think there is zero chance of any of that happening.

TTF for at least a reasoned answer to Sasaferrato post.

 

[coley]

Nor me tbf, but fuck me, it's fuckin' cloud cuckoo land.

Fair enough, but your solution and that of butchersapron would be what?

 

[Anudder Oik]

One thing I don't understand is that as recently as this week, if I'm not mistaken, airstrikes have taken out daesh petrol tankers.

Surely, if various airforces have been bombing IS for months, these tankers would have been priority ages ago so as to cut of their revenue.

Anyone know the whys on this?

 

[mauvais]

One thing I don't understand is that as recently as this week, if I'm not mistaken, airstrikes have taken out daesh petrol tankers.

Surely, if various airforces have been bombing IS for months, these tankers would have been priority ages ago so as to cut of their revenue.

Anyone know the whys on this?

It's been fairly well explained in the news. The tankers are civilian, and the fuel is supplying civilian areas via the black market. Whether that really is what was putting the brakes on any operation is for you to decide. Anyway whether you believe that or not, the US were quite careful to avoid such outcomes, leaflet bombing the area in advance and then conducting a few dummy runs in case anyone had any doubt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/world/middleeast/us-strikes-syria-oil.html

 

[coley]

maybe to put countries previously bombed back together too.

But, if I understand correctly, these 'countries' were an abstract 'Western' idea, created to serve western interests?

 

[kebabking]

One thing I don't understand is that as recently as this week, if I'm not mistaken, airstrikes have taken out daesh petrol tankers.

Surely, if various airforces have been bombing IS for months, these tankers would have been priority ages ago so as to cut of their revenue.

Anyone know the whys on this?

two versions that i've heard - firstly that IS, sadly not being stupid, uses oil people to run its oil operations and ignores their political/religious affiliations as long as they do the job and bring in the cash. the US is obsessed/worried/whatever about civilian casualties and grim you-tube videos showing burning truck drivers, so bans strikes on such convoys/infrastructure.

second version is that IS and the Assad faction jointly manage this golden goose and split the money. the US, petrified of being accused of bombing Assad instalations under the guise of bombing IS, bans strikes on such instalations even though it knows how productive such strikes would be.

either, or both, could be bollocks, but i've yet to hear or see anything more convincing.

 

[Anudder Oik]

It's been fairly well explained in the news. The tankers are civilian, and the fuel is supplying civilian areas via the black market. Whether that really is what was putting the brakes on any operation is for you to decide. Anyway whether you believe that or not, the US were quite careful to avoid such outcomes, leaflet bombing the area in advance and then conducting a few dummy runs in case anyone had any doubt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/17/world/middleeast/us-strikes-syria-oil.html

Civilian tankers in daesh held territory used to gain how many millions of dollars a day for ISIS? and they weren't targeted before? It stinks.

 

[mauvais]

Civilian tankers in daesh held territory used to gain how many millions of dollars a day for ISIS? and they weren't targeted before? It stinks.

$1.5m a day. It's not the easiest problem to resolve - it's a fragmented and disorganised supply chain, after all, but it is a fair question.

 

[coley]

You would endorse an ISIS state? You'd sell out the iraqi and syrian w/c for peace of mind at home? What a disgusting post.

Quite agree, now how many politicians are thinking the same?

 

[mauvais]

two versions that i've heard - firstly that IS, sadly not being stupid, uses oil people to run its oil operations and ignores their political/religious affiliations as long as they do the job and bring in the cash. the US is obsessed/worried/whatever about civilian casualties and grim you-tube videos showing burning truck drivers, so bans strikes on such convoys/infrastructure.

It's not just who moves the stuff, it's where it goes. Ten million people live in those areas, and it's all generators since the infrastructure is ruined. So cut them off and leave them in the dark, and you've got more humanitarian disaster, more refugees, more potential IS converts and you do damage to indirect allies or would-be allies.

Isis Inc: how oil fuels the jihadi terrorists - FT.com

“It’s a situation that makes you laugh and cry,” said one Syrian rebel commander in Aleppo, who buys diesel from Isis areas even as his forces fight the group on the front lines. “But we have no other choice, and we are a poor man’s revolution. Is anyone else offering to give us fuel?”

Some insane stuff in that article though. An ISIS HR department, FFS!

 

[teqniq]

second version is that IS and the Assad faction jointly manage this golden goose and split the money. the US, petrified of being accused of bombing Assad instalations under the guise of bombing IS, bans strikes on such instalations even though it knows how productive such strikes would be.

It seems to be open season on oil related stuff now even though as you've pointed out vital infrastructure such as oil and power stations are sometimes jointly managed by IS and the regime:

Huge explosion as Russian air strikes hit 'Isis oil refinery'

 

[coley]

Seriously, ISIS are getting wiped out on the battlefield - hence these attacks.

Aye, and it's all good, but only with the help of Western air strikes and if news feeds are to be believed, the help of Western SF on the ground.
Now,if IS and the idea of a grand Caliphate in the ME is destroyed just how and where do you think the the remnants will deploy their anger and resentment?

 

[laptop]

An ISIS HR department, FFS!

FT humour

 

[mauvais]

Not really being serious on this front, but this level of sophistication must present a whole bunch of problems for ISIS. Start resembling an actual state with infrastructure and you become the very thing the US etc are very good at destroying in conventional war. Or alternatively you become dependent on the oil price and suddenly interested in political stability

FT humour

I think more a sort of ISIS version of the cargo cult? But then if you're making silly money with no opposition then you can afford to throw money at engineers.

 

[butchersapron]

FT humour

Nope. The below is from part one a four-part series with an an ex ISIS published this week. All linked from this one.

As part of its agitprop, ISIS often shows its muhajireen, or foreign fighters, setting their passports ablaze in a ritual designed to demonstrate that there’s no going back. Whether from Bruges or Baton Rouge, they have all repudiated their nationality in Dar al-Harb, the land of war and depravity and godlessness, in order to become inhabitants of Dar al-Islam, the land of faith and peace (once it finishes fighting wars). But this is mostly for show. Previously, most new arrivals either kept their passports or “handed them over.” To whom? “Human Resources,” said Abu Khaled.

But that relatively relaxed personnel policy has changed in recent days. ISIS is increasingly restrictive and controlling as it has begun to lose battles, some of them at tremendous cost.

 

[bimble]

Seeing as apparently all you need to join is a one way ticket and maybe a beard, nothing else, it would seem likely that IS has a few infiltrators in it by now, people working from the inside. Hope so.

 

[eoin_k]

I'm sure people are queuing up in Langley for that gig.

 

[laptop]

Nope. The below is from part one a four-part series with an an ex ISIS published this week. All linked from this one.

Now, I remember reading that.


Gawd, the rot has gone deeper than Salafism...

 

[Diamond]

Presumably this has already been mentioned before but the captagon element is worth highlighting again.

There is a strong suspicion on my part that the female "suicide bomber" was more of a hostage of this narcotic and the nutters who supplied it to her, given the audio recordings that have emerged.

Don't know much about it but it sounds like it's like a combo of an amphetamine and a dissociative.

 

[J Ed]

Rafida Madness

 

[eoin_k]

Presumably this has already been mentioned before but the captagon element is worth highlighting again.

There is a strong suspicion on my part that the female "suicide bomber" was more of a hostage of this narcotic and the nutters who supplied it to her, given the audio recordings that have emerged.

Don't know much about it but it sounds like it's like a combo of an amphetamine and a dissociative.

I hope you aren't a defence brief.

 

[Sirena]

There has, apparently, been a controlled explosion at Baker Street. The area is cordoned off.

Someone may have left their shopping unattended....

 

[Diamond]

Rafida Madness

Right....

 

[Diamond]

I hope you aren't a defence brief.

What's your point caller?

 

[MrSki]

Mail focuses on the important parts of this story.

 

[J Ed]

Mail focuses on the important parts of this story.

The really important question that goes unanswered here for me is how much her house was worth.

 

[Diamond]

Mail focuses on the important parts of this story.

The Mail has done itself proud over this.

Did you see that their 2-3 page spread today was about the brave dog?

 

[eoin_k]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, my learned friend Diamond has drawn the court's attention to the recording of Hasna's exchange with police officers, which we have all heard. In particular he has asked you to focus your attention on 'what it sounds like' suggesting that Hasna must have been on a cocktail of drugs at the time the recording was made.
Having listened to the recording, I think we can all agree that she sounds like she is in an emotionally charged state. However, I put it to you that this might be expected of a woman - or indeed any person - wearing a suicide vest, during a firefight with the Gendarmerie in which 5,000 rounds of ammunition were fired.

 

[Diamond]

I think they had some ridiculous quotation about how she had not declared her religious allegiance...