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Mail: a truly despicable article ("nothing 'natural' about Stephen Gately's death")

trashpony said:
I agree that it is absurd that unless you stick to their bizarre and arcane rules (which they don't publicise) they reject your complaint.

Why is there not an Ofcom for published media?????
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It's not clear what you want them to do, nor how expecting some authority figure to wield a big stick aids press freedom.

Either there is freedom of the press or there isn't. That freedom includes the freedom to cause offence, and it doesn't matter whether it's Jerry Springer the Opera or Danish cartoonists or some bigot upsetting liberals. If you're asking for curbs on what can be said in the press then you need to spell out very carefully what those curbs are and what sanctions you want to see.
 
newbie said:
It's not clear what you want them to do, nor how expecting some authority figure to wield a big stick aids press freedom.

Either there is freedom of the press or there isn't. That freedom includes the freedom to cause offence, and it doesn't matter whether it's Jerry Springer the Opera or Danish cartoonists or some bigot upsetting liberals. If you're asking for curbs on what can be said in the press then you need to spell out very carefully what those curbs are and what sanctions you want to see.
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I don't think there is anything in the PCC code I disagree with. I would like them to apply the code to the publications it covers. Is that clear enough for you?
 
@BK
Mainly about PCC just after 2.00 (iplayer tonight then ?) Torin (sp) Douglas their media guy with Simon about what happened and unfortunately I was in the kitchen and missed most.
BUT - once again the use of the word "organised", which pisses me off !
Can we not get someone inside there to explain it to them ;)
 
quimcunx said:
Punish the Daily Mail for breaking the PCC's codes of conduct.
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How? I'm going to play warninks advocaat here and ask how can you punish an entity for expression of (repugnent) views? Calls for bans sound more like the DM - and they can deploy exactly the same arguments about Freedom of Speech as any of us do the next time they start wailing on about The Latest Bad Thing To Corrupt Minds That Should Be Banned.

How do you think you can regulate the national press?
 
stephj said:
Xes: I don't think that sort of stuff is going to help IMO.
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You can't stop the internet :mad:

And i like it purile, some people voice their opinions and disgust in ways that differ from the norm. I can't see how this picture is counter productive. I think it's funny.
 
kyser_soze said:
How? I'm going to play warninks advocaat here and ask how can you punish an entity for expression of (repugnent) views? Calls for bans sound more like the DM - and they can deploy exactly the same arguments about Freedom of Speech as any of us do the next time they start wailing on about The Latest Bad Thing To Corrupt Minds That Should Be Banned.

How do you think you can regulate the national press?
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The beeb was fine 150k and wossy was suspended for a while wasn't he over sachsgate. Don't see why you can't do the same here. What's the point of having the PCC otherwise?

The only way is to hit them in the pocket.
 
My MP is Nicholas Soames, but Norman Baker is the next door guy.
Trying to find out when his next surgery is that I can go see him.
 
xes said:
You can't stop the internet :mad:

And i like it purile, some people voice their opinions and disgust in ways that differ from the norm.
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Like say for example forming an angry mob and attacking a paediatrician, because they're idiots. Like you.
 
trashpony said:
The beeb was fine 150k and wossy was suspended for a while wasn't he over sachsgate. Don't see why you can't do the same here. What's the point of having the PCC otherwise?

The only way is to hit them in the pocket.
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Let's remind ourselves some of what the Fail said about that again...

More than 4,000 Mail readers attack Brand and Ross over 'prank' call to Andrew Sachs
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ers-attack-Brand-Ross-prank-Andrew-Sachs.html

Ross, Brand and the BBC's gutter culture
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Y-COMMENT-Ross-Brand-BBCs-gutter-culture.html

And another scandal looms... The Brand and Ross episode is not the only tasteless broadcast by the BBC
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...and-Ross-episode-tasteless-broadcast-BBC.html

The REAL reason the Ross and Brand show was broadcast: BBC bosses actually thought it was funny
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...adcast-BBC-bosses-actually-thought-funny.html

As it claimed the moral high ground :rolleyes:
 
kyser_soze said:
How? I'm going to play warninks advocaat here and ask how can you punish an entity for expression of (repugnent) views? Calls for bans sound more like the DM - and they can deploy exactly the same arguments about Freedom of Speech as any of us do the next time they start wailing on about The Latest Bad Thing To Corrupt Minds That Should Be Banned.

How do you think you can regulate the national press?
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I don't need to. I have the trusty PCC to do that for me. I am asking for them to be punished for breaching a code of conduct which has been laid down by the PCC and is readily available for newspaper editors everywhere to study.

The PCC has codes of conduct for the press. the press are meant to abide by them. If people feel those codes have been breached then they can write to the PCC and, presumably, the PCC will investigate and come up with a judgement that rules have or have not been broken and can put in place some punitive measure.
 
so if the press publishes something that causes offence they should be fined? Is that really the press we want?
 
5t3IIa said:
Trashy - 'we did it'? It's not a retraction, is it?
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No sorry :oops: Got carried away :oops: :oops:

Will change it back

ETA - except if we all lobbied the PCC to investigate and they are now doing so, then we've done that bit haven't we? So we have had an impact. Also, we haven't actually provided any contact details for the DM to ask them to retract the article have we?? :confused:

So is the whole group a bit confused?
 
kyser_soze said:
How? I'm going to play warninks advocaat here and ask how can you punish an entity for expression of (repugnent) views? Calls for bans sound more like the DM - and they can deploy exactly the same arguments about Freedom of Speech as any of us do the next time they start wailing on about The Latest Bad Thing To Corrupt Minds That Should Be Banned.

How do you think you can regulate the national press?
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Do you disagree with the existence of the PCC code, then?
 
What, that the press should vaguely behave themselves? Broadly yes I do. My point is that much as the DM shored up it's 'ban this filth' credentials with Sachsgate, a bunch of liberals saying 'ban this filth' is materially no different.
 
Theres no such thing as a free press, it's dominated and controlled by economic pressure through advertisers. So if a pressure group manages to exert the occaisonal sway over the press then why the fuck not? It's an occaisonal break from Megacorp doing so.
 
kyser_soze said:
What, that the press should vaguely behave themselves? Broadly yes I do. My point is that much as the DM shored up it's 'ban this filth' credentials with Sachsgate, a bunch of liberals saying 'ban this filth' is materially no different.
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Sorry, I don't understand how this follows from my question. You agree that the PCC code is A Good Thing?
 
Y'see, it's the interpretation of that very code that's the problem. How does one judge offensiveness? By the strength of a groundswell of people shouting on the internet? By the actions and comments of those closely involved in the story (which I would imagine is one of the reasons the rule about only investigating stuff when it's been raised by the subjects comes from)? Waving codes around is a dangerous game, because anyone can play it (as the DM did with Sachsgate - they used an OfCom rule to get that done).

So think about the universal applicability of 'rules', and how thay applicability can come back and bite your ass.
 
trashpony said:
I don't think there is anything in the PCC code I disagree with. I would like them to apply the code to the publications it covers. Is that clear enough for you?
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The code is fine, but the pcc is toothless when it comes to punishing publishers. Just look at the Sunday Express article over Dunblane survivors a couple of months ago. The PCC told the Sunday Express it was wrong. And nothing happened, and nobody noticed.

IIRC the Express titles have now taken themselves out of the PCC - and still nothing happens.

The code works well with local newspapers, which are happy to publish prominent corrections, apologies and adjudications to avoid an expensive libel hearing. The nationals, for the most part, couldn't care less so long as people keep buying papers.
 
Just to get my point home. The next time a newspaper runs an article that's offensive to say, the Christian Alliance, and that could be argued breaks the PCC code over something or other, would lead to X publication being fined (well, not at the moment) - presumably the response from this board would be to decry it as a bad judgement, against FoS etc. However, if it breaks the code than by the rules it's a good judgement.
 
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