Looking after one's own: isn't than another way of saying something else?

[nino_savatte]

Immigration is a massive issue, but not in the way that the mainstream media present it.

If we want to begin solving the trafficked women/sex-slave problem, then we need to be thinking about amnesty for 'illegal' immigrants. No-one is illegal.



No, I think he's hyper-aware of the issues surrounding immigration and asylum on a world-wide scale. Ask him about the Baja. Ask him about the rights of indiginous people's who've moved across territories for the last 9,000 or so years, and then tell me how slapping borders and restrictions on their movement in this day and age is 'useful' to humanity, or does is it part of a criminal/prison-complex industry (etc.) with companies like GEO who run majority US detention centres, and already several of UK's as well as the notorious Guantanamo, being the main beneficiaries from laws affecting migration.

Have you noticed how baldwin has been trying to play this? He's made some bizarre claim that I've been just as "obsessed" as him on the issue of immigration.

But what you have said is what I've been trying to get across to them: if you want to end human trafficking, there are better ways to go about it than slapping on more controls.

 

[audiotech]

.. so how do you confuse a demand for a workers control ( what i am arguing for) with the bnps petit bourgoise racialism???

It's not "workers control" that you argue, but rather it is further controls on workers, which is both petit bourgeois and reactionary.

 

[durruti02]

You can't seem to get it into your wee heid that people have been migrating for as long as time itself.

yes muppet of course they have .. forced by war poverty inequality and famine ..

the job of a socilaist/ materialist /historian / politician is to ANALYISE what is happenning AT THE PRESENT in any period and to understand the processes behind ( due you think migration in 1563 is the same as now???????


and it is clear that in 2007 in the uk the historicallly very high level of immigration ( in a period when we have c.3 million unemployed) is PULL .. i.e. the bosses/state have turned the economy into a CHEAP labour economy ( what john cruddas ( is he BNP????) calls the north american model) to which EU expansion country people are encouraged to migrate to .. this was the OP .. this is what you have entirely failed to dispute .. let alone the research Knotted put up ..

 

[durruti02]

It's not "workers control" that you argue, but rather it is further controls on workers, which is both petit bourgeois and reactionary.

MC .. i really despair of you .. can you really not tell/understand the diferrence between workers controlling the workplace via the union and the closed shop and outside contrls on workers???

you claim to be a socialist but that you don't get this basic differrence makes me think you are not .. sorry but any TUist understand this ..

how are ordinary people ever going to get any power if they can not control their workplaces via the union and closed shop??? and HOW the fuck you think thisis petit bougoise is incredible!!!

 

[nino_savatte]

yes muppet of course they have .. forced by war poverty inequality and famine ..

the job of a socilaist/ materialist /historian / politician is to ANALYISE what is happenning AT THE PRESENT in any period and to understand the processes behind ( due you think migration in 1563 is the same as now???????


and it is clear that in 2007 in the uk the historicallly very high level of immigration ( in a period when we have c.3 million unemployed) is PULL .. i.e. the bosses/state have turned the economy into a CHEAP labour economy ( what john cruddas ( is he BNP????) calls the north american model) to which EU expansion country people are encouraged to migrate to .. this was the OP .. this is what you have entirely failed to dispute .. let alone the research Knotted put up ..

Who are you calling "muppet", you ignorant lying sack of shite?

You play the same game as the BNP and the other right wing parties.

Here are some of your awful cliches:

Mass migration
Managed migration
Workers control of immigration
Immigraton controls

I pulled you upon that quote from marx that you used to justify your position. You didn't read the entire letter nor did you understand the context. You lifted a paragraph from the letter and conscripted as a strawman to fight your corner. That is dishonesty.

You can make all the hollow claims that you like, durutti. Oh and which OP are you referring to? The one on this thread or the on one of your 16 threads on the subject?

And this is typical of you

this is what you have entirely failed to dispute .. let alone the research Knotted put up

I haven't "failed to dispute" anything. You, on the other hand, have lied and misrepresented my posts...just like Knotted.

Your argument, for what it's worth, doesn't hold water.

 

[nino_savatte]

you claim to be a socialist but that you don't get this basic differrence makes me think you are not .. sorry but any TUist understand this ..

And what are you, durutti? You're not a socialist - are you?

 

[durruti02]

Who are you calling "muppet", you ignorant lying sack of shite?

You play the same game as the BNP and the other right wing parties.

Here are some of your awful cliches:

Mass migration
Managed migration
Workers control of immigration
Immigraton controls

yes you are a muppet .. for simple reasons

1)i do NOT call for immigration controls OR managed migration AND

2)you fail to understand the differrence between workers controlling labour via the union, and state controls ..

read the threads .. respond to the ops with resoned argument and stats .. you have still not responded to that paper/doc that knotted put up on the other thread

all you have done on here is alledge racism .. and when i state my own includes black and white and ANYIOONE who lives in a place a a given time .. you have nowt more to say ..

 

[durruti02]

And what are you, durutti? You're not a socialist - are you?

deal with the OP

 

[nino_savatte]

deal with the OP

In case you'd forgotten, I began this thread, so I've already dealt with the OP. You, on the other hand, have failed to deal with it and have come along to hurl insult and abuse.

Pillock.

 

[nino_savatte]

yes you are a muppet .. for simple reasons

1)i do NOT call for immigration controls OR managed migration AND

2)you fail to understand the differrence between workers controlling labour via the union, and state controls ..

read the threads .. respond to the ops with resoned argument and stats .. you have still not responded to that paper/doc that knotted put up on the other thread

all you have done on here is alledge racism .. and when i state my own includes black and white and ANYIOONE who lives in a place a a given time .. you have nowt more to say ..

And you're a thick fucking idiot who covers up for his own lack of reading by selectivising quotes and hurling abuse when his argument is unpacked.

You must think that I'm stupid.

1)i do NOT call for immigration controls OR managed migration AND

2)you fail to understand the differrence between workers controlling labour via the union, and state controls ..

You're a liar and you don't even have the courage of your own convictions to stand by what you've posted.

all you have done on here is alledge racism .. and when i state my own includes black and white and ANYIOONE who lives in a place a a given time .. you have nowt more to say

I don't "alledge" anything. Your posts speak for themselves. "Your own", as you alluded to in your OP on ANOTHER THREAD is something altogether different and the phrase has been used by racists and those who oppose immigration for years now. You are no different to those people in the 1950's who called for immigrants to be "sent back" because they weren't "our own".

You're an intellectual coward.

 

[durruti02]

And you're a thick fucking idiot who covers up for his own lack of reading by selectivising quotes and hurling abuse when his argument is unpacked.

You must think that I'm stupid.




You're a liar and you don't even have the courage of your own convictions to stand by what you've posted.



I don't "alledge" anything. Your posts speak for themselves. "Your own", as you alluded to in your OP on ANOTHER THREAD is something altogether different and the phrase has been used by racists and those who oppose immigration for years now. You are no different to those people in the 1950's who called for immigrants to be "sent back" because they weren't "our own".

You're an intellectual coward.

ok .. you are stupid .. i try to explain and you just call me a liar so whatever .. you are stupid .. when my own includes black asian and polish .. as it does .. how the fuck is that racist .. whatever you really are the stupidist person on urban

 

[nino_savatte]

ok .. you are stupid .. i try to explain and you just call me a liar so whatever .. you are stupid .. when my own includes black asian and polish .. as it does .. how the fuck is that racist .. whatever you really are the stupidist person on urban

This is the sum total of your posts. If you can't get your own way, you rely on this shite.

stupidist

Really? You can't even spell the word "stupidest". Why should I take anyone like you seriously?

 

[audiotech]

MC .. i really despair of you .. can you really not tell/understand the diferrence between workers controlling the workplace via the union and the closed shop and outside contrls on workers???

you claim to be a socialist but that you don't get this basic differrence makes me think you are not .. sorry but any TUist understand this ..

how are ordinary people ever going to get any power if they can not control their workplaces via the union and closed shop??? and HOW the fuck you think thisis petit bougoise is incredible!!!

Nice squirm to avoid the main point I was making, which is that you argue all the time that workers should control other workers in some bizarre, bureaucratic formula based on a cobbled up mish mash, that ironically is based on a high point of international workers organisation.

What would one expect from an anarchoid boil on the skin of the workers movement?

 

[durruti02]

Nice squirm to avoid the main point I was making, which is that you argue all the time that workers should control other workers in some bizarre, bureaucratic formula based on a cobbled up mish mash, that ironically is based on a high point of international workers organisation.

What would one expect from an anarchoid boil on the skin of the workers movement?

anarchoid boil! very poetic my love!

this is where i am not sure about you MC.. you constantly think what i am arguing is bureucratic yet i see it as exactly the opposite

i am talking about rank and file action .. i understand that the bureaucracy often, not always, like closed shops especialy with the check off ( if you did read that Taking Control book you turned down you will see they make the point you are making.)

but i am arguing for rank and file to enforce close shops and to create strong shops from this.

you still have not dealt with my assertion that without the closed shop unions are impotent ( however progressive)

i howvere accept your assertion that with the closed shop they CAN be reactionary .. however they are never impotent ..

so why can we not agree we need shops/unions that are progressive BUT understand power and the need for 100% union shops?

actually union bureucracies in many cases are scared of closed shops as the rank and file have more power than in non 100% shops

 

[durruti02]

06-05-2007, 11:24 AM
nino_savatte
thisheavengivesmemigraine Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: bored as a cat
Posts: 23,071


Quote:
Originally Posted by durruti02
ok .. you are stupid .. i try to explain and you just call me a liar so whatever .. you are stupid .. when my own includes black asian and polish .. as it does .. how the fuck is that racist .. whatever you really are the stupidist person on urban

Nino "This is the sum total of your posts. If you can't get your own way, you rely on this shite.


you surpass yourself nino .. you really are so stupid (hey did i spell it right teach?? p.s. thanks for the spelling lesson) .. you accuse me of not knowing any black people on one thread and on here of meaning only white people as 'my own' ..

i response to say you are 100% wrong and you start coming out with shit like this! .. you honestly have no idea do you ..

 

[Blueyonder]

Book

www. racewartodoorwar.com

 

[Blagsta]

www. racewart odoorwar.com

Who's this cunt?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Dunno, some cunt who's just been banned.

 

[tarannau]

He's part of the baggage that these immigration obsessed numpties bring with them I'm afraid. Good riddance.

And now back to another interminable thread about immigration and the usual coded hints about the (white) working class are being hard done by...

 

[nino_savatte]

06-05-2007, 11:24 AM
nino_savatte
thisheavengivesmemigraine Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: bored as a cat
Posts: 23,071


Quote:
Originally Posted by durruti02
ok .. you are stupid .. i try to explain and you just call me a liar so whatever .. you are stupid .. when my own includes black asian and polish .. as it does .. how the fuck is that racist .. whatever you really are the stupidist person on urban

Nino "This is the sum total of your posts. If you can't get your own way, you rely on this shite.


you surpass yourself nino .. you really are so stupid (hey did i spell it right teach?? p.s. thanks for the spelling lesson) .. you accuse me of not knowing any black people on one thread and on here of meaning only white people as 'my own' ..

i response to say you are 100% wrong and you start coming out with shit like this! .. you honestly have no idea do you ..

This post is typical of your style: it is full of invective and smears. You consistently miss the point in order to promote your badly thought out and improperly cited posts.

The only stupid one here is you. You have consistently shown that you don't read and regard knowledge with suspicion.

you honestly have no idea do you

You're projecting again.

 

[durruti02]

This post is typical of your style: it is full of invective and smears. You consistently miss the point in order to promote your badly thought out and improperly cited posts.

The only stupid one here is you. You have consistently shown that you don't read and regard knowledge with suspicion.



You're projecting again.

yet again NO answer from you

1)you accuse me of regarding 'my own' as being all white

2)i respond that this is rubbish as my own is black , white etc etc

3)you then accuse me of a smearing you!!!!

incredible .. you really are an absolute fucking muppet mate .. can you ( and i suspect it will be for once in your life) not admit that maybe you have got it wrong?? and that it is scum behaviour to be making the suggestions you are making? NO??

i will say again .. you accuse me of racism, of being xenophobic .. you say shite like " You use the BNP as a cover for your own xenophobia, but you are just as bad as they are."

so come on loser .. where is you eveidence??? .. find and PRINT JUST ONE SENTANCE OF EVIDENCE to justify your bullshit .. IF YOU DO NO you really are urbans and lifes biggest loser .. you have been banging on about this for months and you have come up with nothing! pratt

 

[nino_savatte]

yet again NO answer from you

1)you accuse me of regarding 'my own' as being all white

2)i respond that this is rubbish as my own is black , white etc etc

3)you then accuse me of a smearing you!!!!

incredible .. you really are an absolute fucking muppet mate .. can you ( and i suspect it will be for once in your life) not admit that maybe you have got it wrong?? and that it is scum behaviour to be making the suggestions you are making? NO??

i will say again .. you accuse me of racism, of being xenophobic .. you say shite like " You use the BNP as a cover for your own xenophobia, but you are just as bad as they are."

so come on loser .. where is you eveidence??? .. find and PRINT JUST ONE SENTANCE OF EVIDENCE to justify your bullshit .. IF YOU DO NO you really are urbans and lifes biggest loser .. you have been banging on about this for months and you have come up with nothing! pratt

Another screed from durutti and another series of baseless allegations. What's the matter with you and your lot? Aren't you capable of discussing anything in an honest fashion?

i will say again .. you accuse me of racism, of being xenophobic .. you say shite like " You use the BNP as a cover for your own xenophobia, but you are just as bad as they are."

Where did I accuse you of "racism", durutti? The thing is, you lot want to be called "racists" so that you can claim that you're "right" and everyone who opposes your ideas is "wrong". That's why you lot say "It isn't racist to be concerned about immigration", it's a way of controlling the discourse. That way, you get your own way time and time again. Well, it stops here and now. You are being called on this issue and thus far, you have produced nothing of substance; just insults, lies and smears.

Oh and your use of grammar stinks and your spelling is appalling.

 

[durruti02]

so when you OPed

"Looking after one's own: isn't that another way of saying something else? "

.. you were NOT suggesting racism??

so what were you suggesting??

and i am SOOOOO sorry about my grammer .. LOLRAF

 

[nino_savatte]

06-05-2007, 11:24 AM
nino_savatte
thisheavengivesmemigraine Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: bored as a cat
Posts: 23,071


Quote:
Originally Posted by durruti02
ok .. you are stupid .. i try to explain and you just call me a liar so whatever .. you are stupid .. when my own includes black asian and polish .. as it does .. how the fuck is that racist .. whatever you really are the stupidist person on urban

Nino "This is the sum total of your posts. If you can't get your own way, you rely on this shite.


you surpass yourself nino .. you really are so stupid (hey did i spell it right teach?? p.s. thanks for the spelling lesson) .. you accuse me of not knowing any black people on one thread and on here of meaning only white people as 'my own' ..

i response to say you are 100% wrong and you start coming out with shit like this! .. you honestly have no idea do you ..

More shit. Have you ever considered a career as a Hollywood scriptwriter?

You don't like the fact that your position is being challenged. You are defensive and abusive when anyone dares to ask questions or, take you to task over your propensity for misquotes.

 

[nino_savatte]

so when you OPed

"Looking after one's own: isn't that another way of saying something else? "

.. you were NOT suggesting racism??

so what were you suggesting??

and i am SOOOOO sorry about my grammer .. LOLRAF

Are you fucking thick? It's rather obvious what is meant. But who are these "working class" people that you keep talking about?

And yes, it is another way of saying "people like us".

 

[nino_savatte]

So you would deny that current immigration policies are the result of colonial attitudes towards other ethnic groups?

You don't read anything, do you?

 

[durruti02]

So you would deny that current immigration policies are the result of colonial attitudes towards other ethnic groups? QUOTE]



er no i do not deny this at all ..

and this INCLUDES the idea that we should get poor people from around the world to do our dirty work .. and you support this ..

 

[durruti02]

More shit. Have you ever considered a career as a Hollywood scriptwriter?

You don't like the fact that your position is being challenged. You are defensive and abusive when anyone dares to ask questions or, take you to task over your propensity for misquotes.

challenged?? that is what you call it when you accuse someone of being racist WITH NO evidence whatsoever??????

what questions??? you ask no questions .. you hint you suggest you bleat .. you say nothing

 

[durruti02]

Are you fucking thick? It's rather obvious what is meant. And yes, it is another way of saying "people like us".

OK .. SO ARE YOU OR ARE YOU NOT SUGGESTING RACISM WITH THIS???

"Looking after one's own: isn't that another way of saying something else? "

SIMPLE QUESTION SIMPLE ANSWER ..

 

[nino_savatte]

challenged?? that is what you call it when you accuse someone of being racist WITH NO evidence whatsoever??????

what questions??? you ask no questions .. you hint you suggest you bleat .. you say nothing

Have I accused you of racism, durutti? If so, please produce the evidence (post #, that sort of thing).

Au contraire, durutti, you say a lot but it means little. Your ideas are badly thought through and you take a broad brush to almost everything that doesn't fit into your tiny world.