Looking after one's own: isn't than another way of saying something else?

[Jessiedog]

i understand where you are coming from BUT but what you are in favour of will only help a tiny tiny minority of the asian poor .. and at the same time it is helping the scum who run the world .. it is notgood for ALL of us ..

No. You are wrong.

The entire Philippine economy benefits from (and is dependent upon,) the remmitances of overseas workers. Entire villages benefit from the remittances of a single worker. Irrigation, electricity, housing, clean water, crop seeds, education, etc.

Remittance money is used to start businesses and create local employment. Houses are built - creating employment.

It actually works for the Philippines, a country of over 90 million people. Sure, there is still massive poverty and deprivation, but migrant workers have ensured that tens of millions of people are now not living in poverty. The numbers who have benfitted are immense. This is good.

This year (2007), migrant workers will remit US$ 14 billion to the Philippines. That's a whole fucking lot of benefit.


And I couldn't give a fourpenny fuck about the scum who run the world, but I DO give a fuck about the poor people of the Philippines and will fully support them in bettering their lot.

And if a few relatively (extremely) wealthy workers in rich countries have to suffer a small drop in earnings in order to accomodate the betterment of their comrades from the Philippines who are TRULY poor, then so be it.

It is incumbent on me (and all of us I believe,) to support the REALLY poor people on this planet. And if it's not good for all of us, then at least it is good for the poorest amoung us. And this is good.

And if there are still more people in Asia who have yet to benefit (and, of course, there are - 400 million in China for a start,) then let's also turn our attention to them, but let's NOT fuck over those who are battling and struggling, working away from their families in order to try and raise themselves out of poverty. That would be bad.



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

Careful, Jessie, you're beginning to sound like Bob Geldoff.

*grabs the microphone and weeps*

*prances around the stage*

Just send the money!

Just keep sending the money!

HURRY UP AND JUST KEEP SENDING THE MONEY!!!



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

I see the global picture and the globalisation of the working class is one I welcome.

Prezactly.

Workers of the world unite!



Woof

 

[tbaldwin]

I see the global picture and the globalisation of the working class is one I welcome.

Why? When Globalisation means that Capital can go where it likes and people are forced to leave friends and families to follow it.

I still cant believe you said you respected Diane Abbott and Lee Jasper!

 

[tbaldwin]

To think, thirty years on from the demise of the NF I see the same "Enoch was right" fuckwits - this time in crap suits.

I also see the same ultra-left, empty rhetoric being tossed around, with it's adherents caught in headlights, paralysed like scared rabbits.

Bright eyes..........................................................................................

If you line up with the likes of Lee Jasper and Diane Abbott,you are in no position to call anyone a fuckwit.

 

[nino_savatte]

One in seven children in this countries primary schools do not speak english as their first language. Many parents and teachers are voicing concern about this. How would you answer those concerns?

You're just a bigot. Why else would you have mentioned this? Oh and there's your other post too.

Please don't tell me that you're not a xenophobe because this post says that you are.

Oh, and please tell me how this post relates to the one that you replied to...it doesn't.

 

[tbaldwin]

You're just a bigot. Why else would you have mentioned this? Oh and there's your other post too.

Please don't tell me that you're not a xenophobe because this post says that you are.

Oh, and please tell me how this post relates to the one that you replied to...it doesn't.

Do you think its xenophobic to raise the issue of language difficulties?
Having a common language might make it easier to teach a class of 6 and 7 year olds i would have thought. Does that make me a bigot?

 

[Julie]

can we consider the phrase "Looking after one's own" another way of saying "Send them back"?

Yep.

 

[nino_savatte]

Do you think its xenophobic to raise the issue of language difficulties?
Having a common language might make it easier to teach a class of 6 and 7 year olds i would have thought. Does that make me a bigot?

Using the issue of language is another way of expressing your cultural attitudes to others.

How many times have I heard "They don't speak the language"? Too many. I'm only surprised you and your petite amie haven't crapped on about "how they smell".

You're both xenophobes but neither of you has the guts to be honest about it.

 

[tbaldwin]

So can we consider the phrase "Looking after one's own" another way of saying "Send them back"?

That might suit you and Julie to believe.
You keep attempting unsuccesfully to label me and durruti and anyone else who disagrees with you as xenophobic and racist. Nino its rubbish and you know its rubbish.

Do you really believe in the here and now (under capitalism) that it is a good thing overall if there is widespread economic migration?
Cos if you do i think your very very misguided.

 

[durruti02]

Originally Posted by durruti02
1)..actually the birth rate is going back up i believe .. mainly children of preious immigrants

Quote:
Originally Posted by durruti02
2)...regulation of people

Quote:
Originally Posted by durruti02
3)..will only help a tiny tiny minority of the asian poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by durruti02
4)not now when there are millions out of work

And this is what you mean by "progressive and new"!

*shudders*

And this is what you mean by "progressive and new"!

*shudders*

this is the most pathetic post i think i have ever seen you do mate ..

taking qoutes entirely out of context to fit a argeument .. you should be ashamed

1) i am HAPPY I/we live in nation of multi ethnic people and children .. so FUCK off with your pathetics insinuations .. APOLOGISE PLEASE

2) this relates to TRADE UNIONS you PRAT .. regulation of scabs and managment scum and racists and grasses and the LIKE is essential .. if you a so called socialist do not understand this it explains why the left is so irrelevent in this country ... APOLOGISE PLEASE

3) i was making a point that is not socialist politics to support migration on the basis that it benfits a tiny tiny minority of the third worlds poor .. socialists support policies that help the majority .. AGAIN THE PATHETIC INSINUATION IS THAT I DO NOT CARE FOR THE ASIAN POOR .. ENTIRELY WRONG WAY AROUND FOOL .. APOLOGISE PLEASE

4) not sure your point here .. you denying there are millions out of work???? i suspect again you are saying it is somehow NOT progressive to say we do NOT need migrant labour when there are millions out of work .. sad

we have a free forum here .. you have abused it with that post ..

 

[tarannau]

If you line up with the likes of Lee Jasper and Diane Abbott,you are in no position to call anyone a fuckwit.

Whereas lining up with the likes of a one track numpty like Balders here would make you King Fuckwit of Fuckwittia.

This thread's a bit of an embarrassment really - a load of insular drawbridge-pulling up nimbys wanting to preserve their generous slice of the pie, regardless of how they got into such a priveleged, unbalanced position in the first place.

It translates roughtly as: "ME, ME, ME, It's all about me and for my family. If you don't agree then it's understandable that the BNP get in.'

It's not, it's the ludicrous behaviour of self-serving types and apologists for the BNP.

 

[durruti02]

For fuck's sake. That's the worst piece of pie-eyed dogshit I've seen in a long while. Trade unions have always believed in a closed shop, that doesn't mean they believe in regulating them you plum, it means they believe in regularising them, getting them all singing from the same hymnsheet, so to speak.

Bosses have imported labour for nearly a thousand years, not a hundred. Bill the Bastard shipped weavers over from the Low Countries to do a cheaper and better job than the natives.

As for your assertion that "i do not call for the state take action as i do not belive it will take action on behalf of its enemy the w/c", that makes you part of the problem, not the cure doesn't it? If you're not prepared to assert your own right to equal treatment under the law then of course you're going to get buttfucked, you're literally inviting it by saying "don't worry bosses, I'm not going to peach on you, because the coppers are in your pockets". I'm surprised you don't doff your cap too, you pilchard.

this makes no sense at all .. sorry you need to re write it .. i'll have stab at what i think you have said

you have entirley misse dthe point of what i said ( though to be fair i DID NOT express it well )

trade unions need to 'regulate'/ 'control' the use of and movement of 'labour' .. they need to ensure everyone is a member of a trade union and that WHEN that union takes, democratically agreed, action all workers act , in unison D ) .. and if they do NOT ... that action is taken to deal with that situation .. do you disagree with this??

i believe that trade unions need to assert not rights but power .. appealing to the state is often pointless .. it is more important to develop alternate power .. if you are not aware of this syndicalist tradition i can say some more on it

i do NOT disagree entirely that unions should attempt to influnece the state just that much time is waste don this ..

 

[durruti02]

Its difficult to say much about the shadowy world of gangmasters, but were the immigrants in report exceptions or the general rule as far as being duped is concerned?

I think you have it the wrong way round. Why is it easy to dupe migrants? I don't believe they are ignorant of what can happen, the point is that they will take the risk anyway and they will put up with the consequences because they see it as temporary.

And I'm afraid it is to do with flexible labour markets. The labour markets are made more flexible by open borders. Sorry, its simply true. It doesn't mean that all flexible labour markets have open borders or that countries with open borders necessarily have flexible labour markets, but its true nevertheless.

The following paper by Martin Ruhs, an Oxford academic deals with a variety of issues associated with this new type of immigration in this country. Its well worth reading:

Greasing the wheels of the flexible labour market: Eastern European labour immigration in the UK



Fuck the authorities. The left should be picketing these places. The SWP & the SP are always going on about how much resources and influence they have. Let's see it then.

another excellent post!

 

[tarannau]

That might suit you and Julie to believe.
You keep attempting unsuccesfully to label me and durruti and anyone else who disagrees with you as xenophobic and racist. Nino its rubbish and you know its rubbish.

Do you really believe in the here and now (under capitalism) that it is a good thing overall if there is widespread economic migration?
Cos if you do i think your very very misguided.

Mate, if you're going to argue about 'language difficulties' then it's a good idea to be able to spell and punctuate your posts in reasonable English. Take the fucking great big plank out of your eye - I've seen more literate year 8 exchange students.

 

[tbaldwin]

It's not, it's the ludicrous behaviour of self-serving types and apologists for the BNP.

So anybody who questions economic migration is a BNP apologist?
Talking out of your arse.

 

[durruti02]

To think, thirty years on from the demise of the NF I see the same "Enoch was right" fuckwits - this time in crap suits.

I also see the same ultra-left, empty rhetoric being tossed around, with it's adherents caught in headlights, paralysed like scared rabbits.

Bright eyes..........................................................................................

you see it .. cos you are not thinking straight .. what you see is NOT what is being said in the slightest .. take off yer SW tinted glasses and actually think about this with an open mind ..

 

[tbaldwin]

Mate, if you're going to argue about 'language difficulties' then it's a good idea to be able to spell and punctuate your posts in reasonable English. Take the fucking great big plank out of your eye - I've seen more literate year 8 exchange students.

Another hopeless Snob joins the debate.....

 

[tarannau]

So anybody who questions economic migration is a BNP apologist?
Talking out of your arse.

No, the specific way you seem unduly obsessed with immigration, like a one trick pony on a bungee cord, marks you out as someone with an unpleasant agenda.

Unlike you, I put a little thought into the accuracy of my posts. Care to misrepresent my words any more?

 

[durruti02]

No. You are wrong.

The entire Philippine economy benefits from (and is dependent upon,) the remmitances of overseas workers. Entire villages benefit from the remittances of a single worker. Irrigation, electricity, housing, clean water, crop seeds, education, etc.

Remittance money is used to start businesses and create local employment. Houses are built - creating employment.

It actually works for the Philippines, a country of over 90 million people. Sure, there is still massive poverty and deprivation, but migrant workers have ensured that tens of millions of people are now not living in poverty. The numbers who have benfitted are immense. This is good.

This year (2007), migrant workers will remit US$ 14 billion to the Philippines. That's a whole fucking lot of benefit.


And I couldn't give a fourpenny fuck about the scum who run the world, but I DO give a fuck about the poor people of the Philippines and will fully support them in bettering their lot.

And if a few relatively (extremely) wealthy workers in rich countries have to suffer a small drop in earnings in order to accomodate the betterment of their comrades from the Philippines who are TRULY poor, then so be it.

It is incumbent on me (and all of us I believe,) to support the REALLY poor people on this planet. And if it's not good for all of us, then at least it is good for the poorest amoung us. And this is good.

And if there are still more people in Asia who have yet to benefit (and, of course, there are - 400 million in China for a start,) then let's also turn our attention to them, but let's NOT fuck over those who are battling and struggling, working away from their families in order to try and raise themselves out of poverty. That would be bad.



Woof

but as you say .. 'there is still massive poverty and deprivation' ..

what you talk of is just TRICKLE DOWN ..

it is what the bosses have boasted of for decades .. that capitalist wealth will trickle down to the poorest .. but it it does NOT benefit the majority and in helping the bosses at the heart of the beast in the west is hindering NOT helping to create a movment to PROPERLY share the worlds VAST resources out equally

 

[tbaldwin]

No, the specific way you seem unduly obsessed with immigration, like a one trick pony on a bungee cord, marks you out as someone with an unpleasant agenda.

Unlike you, I put a little thought into the accuracy of my posts. Care to misrepresent my words any more?

I think Immigration is a massive issue for people in this country and across the world.
So of course im going to comment on it.

And when somebody calls me a BNP apologist or xenophobe or racist, of course im going to reply to it.
Especially from people who have probably never fought the BNP etc and have never really campaigned against them.

Nino goes on just as much as anyone else on the immigration threads do you think he has an unpleasant agenda?

 

[audiotech]

Why? When Globalisation means that Capital can go where it likes and people are forced to leave friends and families to follow it.

I still cant believe you said you respected Diane Abbott and Lee Jasper!

I respect them as political opponents fuckwit.

The globalisation of the working class is welcome because it undermines reactionary nationalism and strenghtens the hands of workers locally to fight the exploitation of global capital.

 

[durruti02]

Whereas lining up with the likes of a one track numpty like Balders here would make you King Fuckwit of Fuckwittia.

This thread's a bit of an embarrassment really - a load of insular drawbridge-pulling up nimbys wanting to preserve their generous slice of the pie, regardless of how they got into such a priveleged, unbalanced position in the first place.

It translates roughtly as: "ME, ME, ME, It's all about me and for my family. If you don't agree then it's understandable that the BNP get in.'

It's not, it's the ludicrous behaviour of self-serving types and apologists for the BNP.

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong .. yet another myopic fool who thinks we can what??? moralise inequality out of existance or what??? campaign it out of existence??? or i don't know levitate it out of existaence??? .... .. if you do not have power .. you can acheive NOTHING ..

 

[tarannau]

Another hopeless Snob joins the debate.....

It wasn't me who started with the snobbish, suggestive guff about poor kids being distracted by immigrants who don't speak English as a first language.

Which is a bit rich coming from you. A bloke whose posted near obsessively about the same subject for much of the last few years, yet still can't spell even the most simple and routine of words you continually use. At least those immigrant kids can work in two languages, and they're at least as adept as you in one, if not both, of them.

 

[audiotech]

Originally Posted by durruti02
1)..actually the birth rate is going back up i believe .. mainly children of preious immigrants

Quote:
Originally Posted by durruti02
2)...regulation of people

Quote:
Originally Posted by durruti02
3)..will only help a tiny tiny minority of the asian poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by durruti02
4)not now when there are millions out of work

And this is what you mean by "progressive and new"!

*shudders*


this is the most pathetic post i think i have ever seen you do mate ..

taking qoutes entirely out of context to fit a argeument .. you should be ashamed

1) i am HAPPY I/we live in nation of multi ethnic people and children .. so FUCK off with your pathetics insinuations .. APOLOGISE PLEASE

2) this relates to TRADE UNIONS you PRAT .. regulation of scabs and managment scum and racists and grasses and the LIKE is essential .. if you a so called socialist do not understand this it explains why the left is so irrelevent in this country ... APOLOGISE PLEASE

3) i was making a point that is not socialist politics to support migration on the basis that it benfits a tiny tiny minority of the third worlds poor .. socialists support policies that help the majority .. AGAIN THE PATHETIC INSINUATION IS THAT I DO NOT CARE FOR THE ASIAN POOR .. ENTIRELY WRONG WAY AROUND FOOL .. APOLOGISE PLEASE

4) not sure your point here .. you denying there are millions out of work???? i suspect again you are saying it is somehow NOT progressive to say we do NOT need migrant labour when there are millions out of work .. sad

we have a free forum here .. you have abused it with that post ..

Really, I was pointing out how the political rhetoric you use has become increasingly similar to that I see coming from the far-right.

That's not to say you are far-right of course.

I'm doing you a favour.

 

[tbaldwin]

It wasn't me who started with the snobbish, suggestive guff about poor kids being distracted by immigrants who don't speak English as a first language.

Which is a bit rich coming from you. A bloke whose posted near obsessively about the same subject for much of the last few years, yet still can't spell even the most simple and routine of words you continually use. At least those immigrant kids can work in two languages, and they're at least as adept as you in one, if not both, of them.

So people worried about their kids being in a class where half the kids speak english as a 2nd language are all snobs are they?

Do you have kids? Where do they go to school?

Just asking cos i know there an awful lot of hypocritical snobs.

 

[tbaldwin]

I respect them as political opponents fuckwit.

They are both scummy opportunists. And deserve no respect from anybody claiming to be a socialist.

 

[tarannau]

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong .. yet another myopic fool who thinks we can what??? moralise inequality out of existance or what??? campaign it out of existence??? or i don't know levitate it out of existaence??? .... .. if you do not have power .. you can acheive NOTHING ..

The counterargument is that you're another near-illiterate, kneejerk idiot who can't concede the positive effects immigration can have on society. It's all about drawbridge pulling up and looking after your own with you, regardless of the selfish reality of what you're suggesting.

With spelling and an intellect like yours, it's no wonder you're worried about competition for jobs. Perhaps if you spent a little more time obsessing about hard working immigrants and attempted to better yourself, then you'd be less bitter and achieve more than continually blaming your ills on others.

And yes, I am a 2nd generation immigrant myself and fiercely proud of my family's achievements. They didn't achieve what they did by continually whingeing how hard done-by they were - they just got on with it, like most working class folks did.

 

[tarannau]

So people worried about their kids being in a class where half the kids speak english as a 2nd language are all snobs are they?

Do you have kids? Where do they go to school?

Just asking cos i know there an awful lot of hypocritical snobs.

I went to a school where over 17 languages were spoken as mother tongues.

Look at my written English, look at yours. What's the problem?

If there were no immigrants here, who the hell would you blame for your lack of achievement?

 

[audiotech]

They are both scummy opportunists. And deserve no respect from anybody claiming to be a socialist.

Line 'em up against a wall eh baldwin pol potty stylee?