London Anarchist Bookfair Saturday 18th October 2014

[Pickman's model]

I think two incidents (dreads and terfs) being reported out of a whole day event probably suggests that it wasn't completely bonkers.

it shouldn't have been bonkers at all.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

it shouldn't have been bonkers at all.

It's good that there are still some starry eyed utopians in the anarchist scene.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's good that there are still some starry eyed utopians in the anarchist scene.

if it had been an anarchist conference no nonsense need have occurred. it was the irruption of guilt-ridden liberals which undermined the valiant efforts of the organizers.

 

[Blagsta]

I think you're right but dreads in the squat/traveller scene were still a signifier for "outlaw" status, no? You can see why some people might think that was an appropriation. And certainly some white people have got dreadlocks and taken up rasta beliefs, with varying levels of sincerity and understanding.

Oh yeah, it was a signifier of rejection of "mainstream" society, but (for me at least), nothing to do with Rastafarianism.

 

[JHE]

When I had dreads (in my early 20s), it was nothing to do with Rasta, I barely even listened to reggae back then, it was cos I identified with the squat/festival/traveller subculture (despite hardly squatting or travelling!).

Equating white people with dreads with appropriating rasta culture is way off beam imo.

You copied "squat/festival/traveller subculture" and where do you think the people of that subculture got the idea from? They copied Rastafarians.

There's nothing wrong with "appropriating" (copying would be a simpler and more accurate term), but denying the origin of the kulchral wotsit you've appropriated seems a bit dishonest and ungrateful.

I expect neo-Nazi nutjobs jumping around to ska say their preferred genre has nothing to do with black musicians. If they do, though, they are at best kidding themselves.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

if it had been an anarchist conference no nonsense need have occurred. it was the irruption of guilt-ridden liberals which undermined the valiant efforts of the organizers.

What's good is that no liberal loons have ever self-identified as anarchist or come to the bookfair previously.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Surely ‘dreadlocks’ is but one of many iterations, globally and across history, of a particular way of wearing hair? Seems odd only to associate it with a tiny religious sect originating in one small part of the world which has been in existence for a very short period of time (when judged against the entirety of human existence).

 

[DaveCinzano]

What's good is that no liberal loons have ever self-identified as anarchist or come to the bookfair previously.

It's good that there are still some starry eyed utopians in the anarchist scene

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Surely ‘dreadlocks’ is but one of many iterations, globally and across history, of a particular way of wearing hair? Seems odd only to associate it with a tiny religious sect in one small part of the world which has been in existence for a very short period of time (when judged against the entirety of human existence).

Sure. And rastas would be the first to say that they got it from the old testament iirc.

But "dread" is an obvious rasta signifier, no?

 

[Blagsta]

You copied "squat/festival/traveller subculture" and where do you think the people of that subculture got the idea from? They copied Rastafarians.

There's nothing wrong with "appropriating" (copying would be a simpler and more accurate term), but denying the origin of the kulchral wotsit you've appropriated seems a bit dishonest and ungrateful.

I expect neo-Nazi nutjobs jumping around to ska say their preferred genre has nothing to do with black musicians. If they do, though, they are at best kidding themselves.

Are you claiming that Rastafarians have some sort of claim on having invented matted hair worn in locks?

 

[Blagsta]

You copied "squat/festival/traveller subculture" and where do you think the people of that subculture got the idea from? They copied Rastafarians.

There's nothing wrong with "appropriating" (copying would be a simpler and more accurate term), but denying the origin of the kulchral wotsit you've appropriated seems a bit dishonest and ungrateful.

I expect neo-Nazi nutjobs jumping around to ska say their preferred genre has nothing to do with black musicians. If they do, though, they are at best kidding themselves.

Oh, and don't use some spurious comparison with neo Nazi skinheads, especially given your own views on race.

 

[Blagsta]

Sure. And rastas would be the first to say that they got it from the old testament iirc.

But "dread" is an obvious rasta signifier, no?

Dread is a rasta signifier, but the term "dreadlocks" has become the accepted cultural descriptor of that hairstyle and a good argument could be made for the term having been (at least in certain contexts) shorn of its original cultural origination.

 

[DaveCinzano]

But "dread" is an obvious rasta signifier, no?

It's like a three-part challenge...

1. ARE YOU PALE-SKINNED Y/N?

If Y, pass to next stage

2. DO YOU WEAR MATTED HAIR Y/N?

If Y, pass to next stage

3. DO YOU CALL YOUR MATTED HAIR ‘DREADLOCKS’, ‘DREADS’ OR ‘LOCKS’ Y/N?

* * * CULTURAL APPROPRIATION KLAXON * * *

Where do the gap year travellers who insist on calling their barnets ‘jata’ fit into all this? Or members of MOVE, who were not rastas?

ETA:

I don't really care how anyone wears their hair, or what they call it, really. I'm just a bit bemused that out of all the definitely, tangibly really shit things that black people have to deal with more than white people in the UK, this was apparently the lightning rod issue, especially when (from what I can make out) the objection has not even originated from those from whom the hairstyle and/or the name of the hairstyle has supposedly been appropriated.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I don't really care how anyone wears their hair, or what they call it, really. I'm just a bit bemused that out of all the definitely, tangibly really shit things that black people have to deal with more than white people in the UK, this was apparently the lightning rod issue, especially when (from what I can make out) the objection has not even originated from those from whom the hairstyle and/or the name of the hairstyle has supposedly been appropriated.

Basically this.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Of course the big question is whether Bootfair 2014 will become known as Year of #Dreadgate or Year of #Lockgate.

 

[el-ahrairah]

IME black activists couldn't give a fuck, it's holier-than-thou white activists pointing fingers at each other about who is the best most activisty activist.

possibly of course, someone may have been trying to join in the people-of-colour only discussions... "i've got dreadlocks because i identify as black, if you dont let me in that's unfair"

 

[DotCommunist]

#cult-appgate

 

[belboid]

I thought the CWO was just one bloke? Should've picked up an Aurora really. But didn't get round to it.

I also don't quite get the logic of CWO inside, ICC outside? No skin off my nose really though.

Three of the fuckers up here. Actually two of them are quite alright. The third one I had to be stopped from bottling last night.

 

[Brainaddict]

IME black activists couldn't give a fuck, it's holier-than-thou white activists pointing fingers at each other about who is the best most activisty activist.

Your assumption that black activists can't also be complete numpties is racist

But really, I think there is a clique of black activists who do think this - this leaflet came up on twitter, posted approvingly: http://www.makezine.enoughenough.org/mohawksdreads.htm

Now if you'd said those black activists who do buy into it are middle class students who are actually in an okay position in life, I'd suspect that might be true, though I couldn't confirm it, not having met all of them.

 

[butchersapron]

Three of the fuckers up here. Actually two of them are quite alright. The third one I had to be stopped from bottling last night.

Is 'jock' still going strong?

 

[gawkrodger]

I went for the first time in years. Picked up some books I'd been after but didn't stick around for very long.

Who are the Critisticuffs lot?

 

[belboid]

Is 'jock' still going strong?

Naah, there's Kevin (okay but dull), Des (throws a good party when he's not ill) and Steve (needs to die)

 

[butchersapron]

I went for the first time in years. Picked up some books I'd been after but didn't stick around for very long.

Who are the Critisticuffs lot?

People who say critique a lot from what i can tell. That sort.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Naah, there's Kevin (okay but dull), Des (throws a good party when he's not ill) and Steve (needs to die)

You appear to be in an early 1990s ITV sitcom.

 

[belboid]

You appear to be in an early 1990s ITV sitcom.

tosh and nonsense. you mean early 70's

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course the big question is whether Bootfair 2014 will become known as Year of #Dreadgate or Year of #Lockgate.

it's not like the auld days. no one who was there will ever forget the battle of holloway road in '05.

 

[Pickman's model]

tosh and nonsense. you mean early 70's

it's a remake

 

[gamerunknown]

Who are the Critisticuffs lot?

An English version of "Gruppen gegen Kapital und Nation", formerly "Junge Linke".

 

[frogwoman]

Is 'jock' still going strong?

yeh he is, met him in the meeting I went to a few months ago

 

[butchersapron]

yeh he is, met him in the meeting I went to a few months ago

Good lad him.