Liz Truss’s time is up
- Thread starter Dogsauce
- Start date
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
This is a purley politically motivated change. Even they have released cutting tax for the richest is not a great look at the moment. This is about trying to get polling figures moving back in their favour. It won't work but that is what they are trying to do.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
Doesn't seem like the Financial Times is much of a fan.
www.ft.com
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story
Changing the facts
It‘s so obvious that I almost think they’ve deliberately scuppered her so that they can be rid of her.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
/
andysays
Love and solidarity
You're the one who appears to be seriously arguing with someone on the internet that a picture of a Moomin isn't a picture of another poster.
Maybe it's you who should "grow up"...
teuchter
je suis teuchter
As an aside, it's interesting to note that if dropping the over £150k band from 45% to 40% only costs £1 or 2biliion, this means that increasing it by 11 x 5% (to create a 100% income tax) would only gain you £11-22billion which doesn't even get you halfway to compensating for the >£40billion cost of reducing the 20% rate to 19%.
Unless I have got my arithematic wrong.
Presumably the 100k-150k band is actually the one where you could make a more meaningful difference?
Unless I have got my arithematic wrong.
Presumably the 100k-150k band is actually the one where you could make a more meaningful difference?
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Where is the threshold for "comfortably off" these days for Tory voters ?
But it still puts sod all in the pockets of normal people - 52p a day if I was still gainfully employed.
But it still puts sod all in the pockets of normal people - 52p a day if I was still gainfully employed.
In 2013, the estimated total income across those earning more than £150k was £90bn (here: Laffer curve - Wikipedia). Presumably, it’s more now at the very least by an inflationary level. So I think the bit you’re missing is the balance between what people would pay if they didn’t change their behaviour versus the bit if they do change their behaviour. I don’t know how any of the estimates have actually been calculated, though.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Wtf are you on about? What’s any of this got to do with Moomins?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Changing behaviour mainly meaning putting more effort into tax avoidance? Or also the result of salaries generally dropping because there's no point in paying people over a certain amount.
Either and both. The point is that you can’t really say what the impact of changing the tax rate will be on the tax take for more than pretty small intervals. Extrapolating from a 5% impact to the effect of 100% doesn’t work.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I guess I'm sort of aware of that in principle, but it seems like extrapolating it ought to overestimate rather than underestimate the benefit.
So reasonably safe to say that increasing the >£150k band percentage (even by a very large amount) is never going to compensate for the effects of lowering the 20% rate even a little.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
but teachter really is a moomin with a top hat
Aside on the entirely apolitical question of charisma:
It's a very subjective thing. Not being a slick and smooth talker myself means I'm not at all put off by Truss's lack of slickness in interviews and I find the sniggering about it says more about the sniggerers than it does about Truss. Obviously her politics are terrible and the fanaticism that drives her premiership has backfired badly in a way that's both hilarious and terrifying. But on a personal level I find her perfectly charming.
In terms of prime ministers I have a living memory of I would rank them as follows in terms of charisma:
1) Gordon Brown
2) Liz Truss
3) John Major
4) Boris Johnson
5) Teresa May
6) David Cameron
7) Margaret Thatcher
8) Tony Blair
Margaret Thatcher is an interesting case in that she was actively going for dislikable but there's something about Tony Blair that makes me immediately think "my god don't trust this psychopath, get him away from me asap" and that makes him the least charismatic (and the worst communicator for that matter - try using some verbs you pretentious weirdo!!) even beating Thatcher. I felt that way before he was Labour leader btw so nothing to do with his record in government. Gordon Brown was, of course, absolutely charming, so bad at being fake he failed at faking being fake (still terrible politics and record in government of course).
All in all I actually don't think how likable someone is makes much difference in terms of how willing people are to vote for them as PM. People generally aren't this shallow, and want someone who "gets things done" (whatever those things may be) rather than charms them.
It's a very subjective thing. Not being a slick and smooth talker myself means I'm not at all put off by Truss's lack of slickness in interviews and I find the sniggering about it says more about the sniggerers than it does about Truss. Obviously her politics are terrible and the fanaticism that drives her premiership has backfired badly in a way that's both hilarious and terrifying. But on a personal level I find her perfectly charming.
In terms of prime ministers I have a living memory of I would rank them as follows in terms of charisma:
1) Gordon Brown
2) Liz Truss
3) John Major
4) Boris Johnson
5) Teresa May
6) David Cameron
7) Margaret Thatcher
8) Tony Blair
Margaret Thatcher is an interesting case in that she was actively going for dislikable but there's something about Tony Blair that makes me immediately think "my god don't trust this psychopath, get him away from me asap" and that makes him the least charismatic (and the worst communicator for that matter - try using some verbs you pretentious weirdo!!) even beating Thatcher. I felt that way before he was Labour leader btw so nothing to do with his record in government. Gordon Brown was, of course, absolutely charming, so bad at being fake he failed at faking being fake (still terrible politics and record in government of course).
All in all I actually don't think how likable someone is makes much difference in terms of how willing people are to vote for them as PM. People generally aren't this shallow, and want someone who "gets things done" (whatever those things may be) rather than charms them.
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
so is gordon top charisma or tony top?
BusLanes
Pedestrian
I went to a non party event in London in 2017 where it turned out Blair was the main speaker and it was really quite amazing to watch him in action. He had the audience and media (there were a lot present) eating out of his hands. He made it look effortless.
I'd never seen him in action before so no idea of he was better or worse during his heyday.
I'd never seen him in action before so no idea of he was better or worse during his heyday.
I'm guessing Blair. Otherwise he reckons Truss is the second most charismatic PM in recent memory and that's clearly madness so...
JimW
支那暗杀团
We should rank them by their de like the legendary kings: Zhou Period Philosophy and Thought (www.chinaknowledge.de)
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
world-beating ballshit.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
I'd (reluctantly) put Bojo ahead of both May and Cameron for charisma tbh. His premiership was pretty heavily dependent on the Booster McBumble presentation style whereas May fell over in part because the most interesting thing about her was her choice in shoes. And Cameron was just a ham in a suit.
Gordon. I guess for most people it's the reverse. People are weird.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Brown couldn't gladhand to save his life, or indeed his career. And holy fuck I just remembered his Forced Smile phase.
Fwiw:
1) Blair
2) Thatcher
3) Bojo
4) Major
5) Cameron
6) Brown
7) May
Truss it's a bit early to tell maybe, at least as a full-on party leader. She's currently a dreadful interviewee and sketchy as a speaker but will be getting plenty of practice for the next wee while. Blair by far the most plausible speaker, Thatcher had that dread figure of authority thing going on.
Fwiw:
1) Blair
2) Thatcher
3) Bojo
4) Major
5) Cameron
6) Brown
7) May
Truss it's a bit early to tell maybe, at least as a full-on party leader. She's currently a dreadful interviewee and sketchy as a speaker but will be getting plenty of practice for the next wee while. Blair by far the most plausible speaker, Thatcher had that dread figure of authority thing going on.
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Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
I actually think something about Truss reminds me a bit of late-period, post-Iraq, god-complex Blair. At the point where 'well I believe this to be true' seemed to be all he thought was required.
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