Liz Truss’s time is up

[littlebabyjesus]

Why only 83% and not 99% or 100%?

Good question. I'm being cautious.

 

[two sheds]

In the 1970s, the top rate was 83%. Returning to that would be a decent start.

Sends a clear message. You've got enough fucking money already.

unearned income top rate was 95%. Worked before and perfectly sensible - you wouldn't want any higher than that or it would start to discourage them.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Make damn sure Phil Collins never comes back.

 

[brogdale]

So you don't care whether higher rate income tax is set at 45 or 40 pc then?

Reflecting on what you say...call me a liberal...but I think I'd go for an upper % of 99% on earned income.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

An objection often raised is that 'the rich would leave'.

Good. Where is the problem here? We can't afford them.

 

[rasputin]

unearned income top rate was 95%. Worked before and perfectly sensible - you wouldn't want any higher than that or it would start to discourage them.

98% I believe. Comprising the basic rate plus an additional income tax surcharge of 15% on unearned income.

 

[two sheds]

yep in 1979

 

[teuchter]

Good question. I'm being cautious.

What is there to be cautious about?

Also, what's the income that this highest rate applies to?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What is there to be cautious about?

Also, what's the income that this highest rate applies to?

Yours.

 

[teuchter]

The current highest rate is 60 percent, for the band of income between £100k and £125k. After that it reverts to 40 percent.

I was looking at this graph earlier and noticed that 60% bit and trying to understand what the logic of it is.

Marginal and average income tax rates in England, Wales and Northern Ireland | IFS Taxlab

ifs.org.uk

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I was looking at this graph earlier and noticed that 60% bit and trying to understand what the logic of it is.

Marginal and average income tax rates in England, Wales and Northern Ireland | IFS Taxlab

ifs.org.uk

Something to do with National Insurance? That has an upper limit.

 

[andysays]

It's pretty clear from teuchter's recent posts where his class allegiances lie. He obviously identifies with the so-called "wealth creators"

 

[Kaka Tim]

That is actually terrifying. The government has been hijacked by dangerous zealots who are quite prepared to trash the economy, sociery and people in pursuit of their bat shit ideology. and with zero democratic mandate. It is imperative these fuckers are stopped. These is one of those occasions where the anger could be so widespread - and the opposition coming from so many places- that mass protests, occupations, strikes etc could actually bring these fuckers down. We cant wait for two long years for Kieth the beige to come along and save us.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Arab diplomats urge Liz Truss not to move British embassy to Jerusalem

Private letter says ‘illegal” plan could jeopardise free trade deal between UK and Gulf Cooperation Council

www.theguardian.com

Obviously I’m not up to date on all things truss, but where did this gem of an idea come from ?

From Trump. He was the last person I can recall floating the same 'idea' anyway.

 

[teqniq]

Much good it may do but this seems to have taken off big time:

Archived Petition: Call an immediate general election to end the chaos of the current government

Call an immediate general election so that the people can decide who should lead us through the unprecedented crises threatening the UK.

petition.parliament.uk

This is well on the way to a quarter of a million signatures. However government responded with a big 'fuck you' quite some time ago

Government responded​

This response was given on 20 September 2022

The UK is a Parliamentary democracy and the Conservative Party remains the majority party. The Prime Minister has pledged to ensure opportunity and prosperity for all people and future generations.

 

[Flavour]

I always thought teuchter was just a dimwitted, isolated old fool, but now I realize he's an active tory. Nice

 

[Orang Utan]

I always thought teuchter was just a dimwitted, isolated old fool, but now I realize he's an active tory. Nice

I doubt he is any of these things

 

[teuchter]

Yours.

Yeah, but this is a significant question isn't it? We can agree on a really high highest rate but then still have to decide where it starts from, which means somehow deciding what's a reasonable "maximum anyone really needs to earn".

Is anyone willing to venture a figure?

 

[steveo87]

I get the feeling the phrase 'we have and 80 seat majority, which gives the mandate to enatch these sorts of things' or words to that effect increasingly over the next few weeks or months.

Or the equally vacuous 'it would have been worse under Corbyn'.

 

[Tanya1982]

48 minutes. Taking out the time to sign in, pleasantries before and after the meeting, that's probably about 30 minutes of actual conversation. wtf. this is actually quite serious guys.

Yes, but it doesn't take half an hour to say 'you're a pair of fucking clowns, and we think you should rein it in, but if you don't, on your heads be it'.

 

[SysOut]

I get the feeling the phrase 'we have and 80 seat majority, which gives the mandate to enatch these sorts of things' or words to that effect increasingly over the next few weeks or months.

Or the equally vacuous 'it would have been worse under Corbyn'.

It was the same with Brexit, remember.
Anything goes.You gave us the right to do anything we want.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I get the feeling the phrase 'we have and 80 seat majority, which gives the mandate to enatch these sorts of things' or words to that effect increasingly over the next few weeks or months.

Or the equally vacuous 'it would have been worse under Corbyn'.

I hate being wrong

What’s amazing about Johnson is that aside from the protest bill he pissed an 80 seat majority away doing nothing aside from lining pockets.


More of this incompetence please

 

[Orang Utan]

It's pretty clear from teuchter's recent posts where his class allegiances lie. He obviously identifies with the so-called "wealth creators"

View attachment 345236

oh come on, this is nonsense - he's played you for a fool if you really think that

 

[Mezzer]

What a bunch of fucking incompetents. This didn’t make sense on any level. The new govt had two years to gain lost popularity and they do this? How does that make sense? Even if her ‘trickle down’ economic nonsense did pan out, it would be so far down the line that 2 years wouldn’t see the result. Check the last sentence in this Telegraph article. archive.ph.

 

[Lurdan]

FT hack George Parker (its Political Editor) on the week's events and Truss for tomorrow's FT:

Seven days that shook the UK - Financial Times (archived)

Truss and Kwarteng have long inhabited a world of free market Tory think-tanks, such as the Institute of Economic Affairs, which have nourished a view that Britain is being held back by stale, declinist, economic “orthodoxy”.
While previous generations of Tories saw financial markets as being neutral truth-tellers to feckless governments, many on the rightwing of the Conservative party now see the markets as part of a detached elite that does not understand the potential of tax cuts to stimulate growth.

Lord David Frost, former Brexit minister, is among those urging Truss to stand firm against the “ghastly crew” of the economic establishment. In a Friday column in the Daily Telegraph, he listed the IMF, the European Commission, the FT, the Economist and former Bank of England governor Mark Carney as being part of “the international hectoring classes” and insisted the government rejects “that defeatism”.
This viewpoint, familiar from the 2016 Brexit debates when “experts” were derided by the Leave campaign, is important in understanding the frame of mind of Truss, as she stuck to her guns through a torrid week.

“There’s a mindset, which has been very strong on the right of British politics for many years, which argues that the benefits of supply-side reforms, low taxes and less regulation are immense,” says David Gauke, a former cabinet colleague of Truss who is deeply critical of the “mini” Budget.

(The Lord David Frost article referred to there is this one: Why Kwarteng is right and Carney is wrong (archived))

Parker's conclusion:

Truss arrives in Birmingham on Saturday for the annual Tory conference facing questions about her survival as prime minister, less than a month after becoming Tory leader. Some Tory MPs say they cannot vote for the fiscal plan unless it is reformed.

But those inside Downing Street have taken some comfort in a rally in the pound towards the end of the week and insist Truss has not waited this long to implement her political vision only to be blown off course by the markets.
“She’s very much not in the mood to budge,” says one senior government official. A cabinet minister agrees: “She’s absolutely not changing strategy . . . The situation is deadlocked. She can’t and won’t move.” But if Truss cannot show that the sums add up, the markets may yet decide otherwise.

 

[ska invita]

"Woke bankers" daily mail front page before christmas

 

[kabbes]

I was looking at this graph earlier and noticed that 60% bit and trying to understand what the logic of it is.

Marginal and average income tax rates in England, Wales and Northern Ireland | IFS Taxlab

ifs.org.uk

Between two particular thresholds — I think it’s 100 and 125ish — the tax free allowance is gradually stripped away to zero. This has the effect of creating a higher marginal tax rate in this band of earnings.

 

[SysOut]

These policies are just about the rich getting into siege mode and pulling up the drawbridge.

In short, the economy is not there for the general welfare, but for their welfare of the rich.

No such thing as society and all that.

 

[alex_]

What a bunch of fucking incompetents. This didn’t make sense on any level. The new govt had two years to gain lost popularity and they do this? How does that make sense? Even if her ‘trickle down’ economic nonsense did pan out, it would be so far down the line that 2 years wouldn’t see the result. Check the last sentence in this Telegraph article. archive.ph.

They’ve lost the telegraph…

 

[Bingoman]

Minister Kit Malthouse 'surprised' at market reaction to tax cuts

The education secretary says tax cuts were "advertised" during Liz Truss's leadership campaign.

www.bbc.co.uk