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Liz Truss’s time is up

Led by who? Johnson got rid of most of the sensible one-nation tories and only promoted sycophants. Truss is worse. They are a joke at the moment.
Well, if they haven't come up with anyone, and it kind of looks like they may not, then perhaps there's a good chunk of electorate who would go for Kier Starmer.

But that wouldn't be an indication of loads of people fundamentally changing their view of politics or what capitalism is, or anything like that.

I don't see how this mess is going to swing centre-ish people to the left, for example.
 
Well, if they haven't come up with anyone, and it kind of looks like they may not, then perhaps there's a good chunk of electorate who would go for Kier Starmer.

But that wouldn't be an indication of loads of people fundamentally changing their view of politics or what capitalism is, or anything like that.

I don't see how this mess is going to swing centre-ish people to the left, for example.

You don't see how the energy crisis may lead to more support for nationalised energy? How the publicity around cost of living may lead to more support for strike action in pay disputes?
 
You don't see how the very public seppuku of neoliberal dogma might discourage people from embracing the political wing which conceived, implemented and associated with it for the last 40+ years?

The question is not whether people will change their views, it's how. The far-right is, predictably, cleaning up by embracing a belligerent retreat into jingoism in the absence of a coherent/confident left alternative, but they will also be fucking things up in short order – the opportunity very much is there for the left, should it ever get its act together. The problem is atm it doesn't seem to be able to, so how to fix that is the debate to be had. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're equipped for it, teuchter.
 
Fuck the left. What is the left anyway. Argue a decent socialist policy or plan. No one gives a fuck about "the left" except on here. If you're a communist or anarchist, just get on and make the case. The intraspection is a waste of energy and time.
 
C&P from the torygraph link above

Crispin Odey and other hedge fund managers profit from sterling tumble​

Computer-driven traders have also gained from strong selling in UK currency​

September 27 2022
Crispin Odey against a sterling backdrop with a line showing how sterling has fallen since January
Crispin Odey believes the pound could fall to parity against the dollar: ‘I don’t think you can start getting bullish on sterling’ © FT montage/Bloomberg
Hedge fund managers including Crispin Odey are among those profiting from steep falls in sterling and UK government bonds as investors take flight on fears over the sustainability of the country’s public finances.

The founder of Odey Asset Management is one of several leading hedge fund managers who believe the pound could now fall to parity against the dollar or below. Both his group and other trend-following hedge funds have been running short positions — bets on falling prices — against the pound and longer-dated gilts for some time.

Odey’s bets — based on the belief that the market had badly underestimated how long inflation could stay high — are now paying off handsomely. His flagship European hedge fund is now up about 145 per cent this year.

“I don’t think you can start getting bullish on sterling,” Odey told the Financial Times, expressing his belief the pound could hit one-to-one against the dollar. “It’s so close” to parity, he said.

The adverse market reaction to chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng’s tax-cutting, high borrowing plan last week has hit both sterling and the gilts market, as investors fretted about its impact on inflation, government debt and Britain’s hefty current account deficit.

After the chancellor — who at one stage worked for Odey — suggested at the weekend there could be further tax cuts, sterling hit an all-time low of $1.035 on Monday.

“It’s been helpful,” Odey said about his short sterling position. “It [sterling and gilts] is all part of the same story of higher inflation . . . The market has been a long way from where inflation was.”

Sterling per dollar from January to September 2022

The pound is now down more than 4 per cent against the dollar since Kwarteng’s fiscal plan on Friday, while UK gilts are on course to post their worst month on record dating back to 1979.

Odey described his bets against gilts as “the gifts that keep on giving”.

The fund manager has donated significant sums of money to Conservative causes over the past decade. He has given more than £800,000 to pro-Brexit campaigns, including £32,000 to the UK Independence party when it was led by Nigel Farage.

Odey donated £10,000 to Boris Johnson’s Tory leadership campaign in 2019, but was criticised by Labour politicians after it was revealed that he was betting against the pound. He told the FT that suggestions he donated to the campaign to profit from a potential chaotic Brexit outcome were “crap”.

Many of the bearish bets on sterling have also been run by so-called managed futures hedge funds, a sector running $390bn, according to data provider HFR. These strategies try to latch on to trends in global markets.

The pound’s fall from more than $1.40 in June last year has provided a strong trend for funds to follow. Funds have held a short sterling position for well over a year, according to Société Générale’s Trend Indicator, which models the positions of such funds, and in 2022 it has been the second most profitable bet for them, behind only wagers against Japan’s currency.

Rotterdam-based Transtrend, which manages $6.3bn in assets, is shorting sterling against several other currencies, and also betting against British fixed income instruments. Such bets together have been a big contributor to the fund’s gains of 7.4 per cent this month, while so far this year the fund is up about 30 per cent.

Many in the market are bracing themselves for further falls.

“Buying sterling here is like licking honey from the razor’s edge,” said Hugh Hendry, founder of Eclectica Asset Management, which wound down its hedge fund in 2017. “It would be remiss of the foreign exchange community not to allow for [sterling] to trade back at parity with the dollar and possibly trade below that level in the short term.”

Pilar Gomez-Bravo, director of fixed income for Europe at MFS Investment Management, has been shorting the pound for some time and increased this bet to the maximum allowed in her portfolio following Kwarteng’s announcement last week.

She believes the pound could fall to parity with the dollar “and keep going unless there is a policy response” from the Bank of England or the government, although she added that she expected such a response to come.

Odey said he expected the pound to “bounce around now” and that both sterling and gilts were getting closer to the point at which being short was no longer attractive. He said his bet against the pound was not magnified by using debt and had been bigger in the past.

Odey said he did not have a trading advantage because Kwarteng previously worked as a consultant to Odey Asset Management.

“There’s a mad idea that one’s behind every twist and turn,” said Odey. “All I can do is catch the wind now and again.”

Additional reporting by Sebastian Payne in Liverpool

Reading that actually makes me feel a bit sick.

People I work with have not quite been that jocular but before Kwateng stood up in the commons that morning our boss was having a bit of laugh about how Truss and Kwateng are 'gamblers' and even he didn't know what was about to be announced (senior tory). They're so insulated from the results of this shit they really really dont care. It's just a game.
 
Fuck the left. What is the left anyway. Argue a decent socialist policy or plan. No one gives a fuck about "the left" except on here. If you're a communist or anarchist, just get on and make the case. The intraspection is a waste of energy and time.
How do you expect to make the case without identifying it first? I'm all for avoiding too much navel gazing but "just do it" is an equally pointless approach.
 
Reading that actually makes me feel a bit sick.

People I work with have not quite been that jocular but before Kwateng stood up in the commons that morning our boss was having a bit of laugh about how Truss and Kwateng are 'gamblers' and even he didn't know what was about to be announced (senior tory). They're so insulated from the results of this shit they really really dont care. It's just a game.
wow do you work with senior tories? I don't think you've told us about that before.
 
I don't see how this mess is going to swing centre-ish people to the left, for example.
You really can't see how an ideologically driven, self-inflicted economic recession with all of the attendant hardship, poverty, anxiety and heartbreak will cause people to question in who's interest this state is governed?
 
You don't see how the energy crisis may lead to more support for nationalised energy? How the publicity around cost of living may lead to more support for strike action in pay disputes?
We've already forgotten about the outrage from water company bosses pay, whilst pouring shit into our rivers and giving the money that should have been spent on infrastructure to shareholders. The reservoirs are still empty, but a couple of rain showers and that's just chip wrappers already.

So no. Sadly I see no progress on nationalised energy anytime soon.
 
One of the guys from work posted a tik tok video about tax "so simple even socialists can understand it" :facepalm: . I'm assuming he's in the Truss fan club. Amazing to think she'll still have the support of some people.
 
You don't see how the energy crisis may lead to more support for nationalised energy? How the publicity around cost of living may lead to more support for strike action in pay disputes?

You don't see how the very public seppuku of neoliberal dogma might discourage people from embracing the political wing which conceived, implemented and associated with it for the last 40+ years?

The question is not whether people will change their views, it's how. The far-right is, predictably, cleaning up by embracing a belligerent retreat into jingoism in the absence of a coherent/confident left alternative, but they will also be fucking things up in short order – the opportunity very much is there for the left, should it ever get its act together. The problem is atm it doesn't seem to be able to, so how to fix that is the debate to be had. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're equipped for it, teuchter.

I think support for nationalised utilities/public services might increase due to the energy crisis (rather than due to what the government is doing).

Dunno if there will be a notable increase in support for strike action.

I don't think the "very public seppuku of neoliberal dogma might discourage people from embracing the political wing which conceived, implemented and associated with it for the last 40+ years" because most people (or at least the people whose minds need to be changed) won't see it as a "seppuku of neoliberal dogma" in the first place.

I think what it's likely that many people will take away from this will be an increased awareness of the fact that decisions made by the government actually can have a direct and real effect on their lives.

I read loads on urban75 about sectors of society that believe that it doesn't really matter who's in power, they are all the same, etc. And this was supposedly the reason for the leave vote - perception that things are bad enough that they can't get much worse, throw everything in the air as a protest vote, etc etc.

Well, I don't really buy that entirely, but in any case, if what's happening now doesn't blow over, and prompts things like people's mortgages going way up, then it doesn't seem whacky to speculate that this will turn people off any kind of radical interventions with the economy and make centrist type positions look ore attractive.

No I am not very well equipped for the debate on how "the left" can get its act together, but I'm not very convinced that those who are equipped for it by their extensive reading and years of pontification are going to get anywhere either, because so much of it is based on an over-optimistic view of what most people want or care about.
 
You really can't see how an ideologically driven, self-inflicted economic recession with all of the attendant hardship, poverty, anxiety and heartbreak will cause people to question in who's interest this state is governed?
Seeing as the last two major UK recessions gave us John Major and David Cameron - not really no.
 
You don't see how the energy crisis may lead to more support for nationalised energy? How the publicity around cost of living may lead to more support for strike action in pay disputes?

Support for nationalisation has been there for ages, and has a broad base... e.g yougov summary of support for energy nationalisation since 2019 below. I realise since 2019 is not 'for ages', but that covers the 2019 election and shows majority support even among tories. Support for leftist policies isn't the problem.

 
Yeah there are a few like that at my work. I think reality will catch up with them soon though.

The trouble is they're easily palmed off by excuses like "it's all down to the war in Ukraine", "every country is going through the same thing", "we need low taxes for high earners to attract the best", etc
 
Well, I don't really buy that entirely, but in any case, if what's happening now doesn't blow over, and prompts things like people's mortgages going way up, then it doesn't seem whacky to speculate that this will turn people off any kind of radical interventions with the economy and make centrist type positions look ore attractive.

No I am not very well equipped for the debate on how "the left" can get its act together, but I'm not very convinced that those who are equipped for it by their extensive reading and years of pontification are going to get anywhere either, because so much of it is based on an over-optimistic view of what most people want or care about.
Although my own policy preferences tend to be radical or at the very least way out of step with the dominant allegedly centrist positions of the last 40+ years have been, I dont spend all that much time pontificating about them in the manner you have criticised in recent posts because I am most interested in stuff that stands a fair chance of actually happening.

With that in mind, of increasing interest this century is the way in which the unavoidable challenges of this century will affect the policy detail of what is packaged up and sold to people as being a legitimate part of the non-radical centre-ground. I think one of the reasons the tories are in a mess is that their ideological preferences are increasingly out of step with the policies that even centre-ground capitalist entities will end up having to support this century. Truss represents an extreme example of the worst Thatcherite type excesses being so obviously at odds with the fundamentals of our age, and now we are going to see the tory party and the broader establishment be forced to come to terms with this in an incredibly messy and chaotic way. The nature of criticisms from other entities like the IMF and other countries such as Germany today add some example detail to this. Truss reflects how out on a limb the tories have been driven in their quest to deny these emerging realities, and the chances are now great that once the dust settles they will be relegated to the margins until they have shown some signs of coming to terms with reality. It looks increasingly likely that most of that will happen while they are out of power. Meanwhile the latest iteration of what counts as sensible, mainstream, centrist stuff will probably get a chance to evolve and adapt a little more, and then end up in the driving seat of power.

It doesnt sound like your own opinion of what most people want or care about is in complete alignment with the population either. But that may just be down to conflating what a rather large number of people would actually wish for and what they've been led to believe is realistic and possible. Sometimes events provide a rare glimpse of what people would actually like, sometimes even a rare opportunity for a quicker shift in what the media etc deem to be mainstream, centralist and plausible. Economic events of significant magnitude sometimes get into this territory, as do energy shocks and also events like the recent pandemic where a rapid adjustment occured as a result of even the establishment suddenly having to think the unthinkable. Assumptions about support for strikes being less than actually turns out to be the case are not an uncommon feature, probably in part down to a distorted view via media propaganda, stuff which in the past the media then had to adjust in order to restore their credibility (eg BBC attitude towards firefighter strikes years ago, shit they had to shift on once the honking of passing motorists gave a different picture).

I've been a bit stuck in a holding pattern for 20 years because I got a bit ahead of events in terms of the energy transition this century. And a chunk of my fellow travellers early on were the sort who could only pay full attention to things like peak oil when they attached a sense of immediacy to it, and they seemed to lose focus once it became more obvious that the crudest of peak oil timing predictions were wide of the mark. I initially shared some of those timing errors, but instead of giving up I managed to adjust to the reality of a very much longer and more complicated period of instability and transition, a story of the century that will probably not complete until after my lifetime is over. Anyway in recent years it feels like this story is starting to get to the 'interesting' bits, change is looming larger on the horizon. But a lot of people still seek simpler stories, and many of those who would like to weave everything together into a comprehensive narrative are doomed via oversimplification, paranoia, or too narrow a focus, or assumptions that are rooted in what was deemed plausible in previous eras instead of what possibilities future realities render plausible or even inevitable.

In any case change is happening, but its messy and in this country the right is still been granted far more opportunities to attempt extreme policies than the left ever gets. But I refuse to see that as a simple indication of which way the populations preferences actually lean, much of it is only a story about which way the establishments interests lean. And I dont think the right will get infinite chances to keep flogging doomed shit, they will end up a temporarily spent force at some point and then the new mainstream that is more in tune with the challenges of this century will get a chance to rule.

I've also heard that generations younger than me are less burdened by some of the very long ideological shadows that were case in the 20th century. Apparently socialism is not such a dirty word in such quarters. But we havent reached a moment where I would dare to predict how much affect that will have on where the new mainstream can end up in policy terms in the next decade or so. Its one to watch though, especially if certain forms of capitalism fuck up in ways that shake faith in such things well beyond the radical left.
 
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Reading that actually makes me feel a bit sick.

People I work with have not quite been that jocular but before Kwateng stood up in the commons that morning our boss was having a bit of laugh about how Truss and Kwateng are 'gamblers' and even he didn't know what was about to be announced (senior tory). They're so insulated from the results of this shit they really really dont care. It's just a game.


I‘m going to tell this story again..


This was just about the time that austerity measures were starting to kick in so that cuts were having real world effects in communities, so let’s say winter 2010/11 . I was in a pub with some friends and not everyone knew each other. I got talking with the woman sat beside me and it turned out she was a lawyer working fairly high up within the Financial Services Authority. l asked her “I‘m curious, now that austerity measures are starting to have an effect on people‘s daily lives, how is that-“ and she interrupted me and said “The question doesn’t make sense.”

I was a bit annoyed and tried again. I wanted to ask if there was any awareness of, any concern about, any sense of recognition of the anger and distress the policy was causing. “So the people you’re working with, the ones who’ve framed this policy, do they think the effects will-“ and again she just cut across me, said. “The question doesn’t arise.”

I thought she was being arrogant and said “Just let me ask the question”. So she did, but I could see that she was humouring me. I framed it as “Are they not concerned that the anger and distress their policies cause may play out badly for them?”

And then she said “You don’t get it. Your question does not make sense. The question of how people feel about their policies does not arise.” I just kinda looked at her, because while I knew she was telling me something true, I didn’t want it to be so. I mean, I’d always known this on some level but to hear it stated so simply by someone who works with them was unsettling.

Then she said “This is the thing that most people don’t understand. People, you and me and all of us here, we don’t exist for them. Not even in abstract terms. We are statistics, numbers in a formulae, not people. They don’t give us any thought because we don’t exist for them. The question do they consider the effects does not arise. However you frame it, your question makes no sense.”

So there you go.

Truss’ robotic responses to questions are entirely sensible when this is understood. She has no answers because they don’t care because we don’t exist. Unfortunately for Truss and those behind her, she’s not a great actor. That’s her stupidity. Nothing has changed because Truss is worse than anyone else at this, it’s just that the Truss is more shit at hiding the truth from us.

And as others have said, now would be quite a good time for the Left to grow some muscle, or start to use what strengths we have. But it won’t happen. Because the long-game work of making all of us into little personal principalities has been so successful. Everyone will batten downs the hatches around our own little patch and pull up the drawbridge. Try to weather the storm as best we can. None of us has the resources, let alone the stomach, for the fight because we’ve been conditioned to be fearful of the perceived consequences: more poverty, more debt, more taxes, more loss of control.

Truss was brought in - or allowed in, or anyway not stopped - because she’s utterly expendable. She was given the task of pushing through these stupid hedge fund tactics. She’s a fall guy, she’s the stooge, the stool pigeon.
She has no option other than following the script now. She has no real policy of her own.

And we all know that in the background there is Medici level machination going on to groom up whoever comes next. I reckon they’ll be quite comfortable letting her stay in office while the rubble rains down on us all. Those with the money will be comfortable enough to wait it out.

The only people who really care about who’s in power are the politicians themselves. It makes no real difference to us, eh, not really. Everything is falling to pieces regardless of who’s making policy, it’s just about which bit breaks first now. The ones who run things at the top the ones who hold the money, they’re fine whoever is sitting. They just need to have a sense of what‘s afoot in order to make hay. The likes of Rees-Moggs and Crispin Odey will continue to feather their own foul nests regardless of any other factor.

If Labour do win the next election and then fails to bring in the new dawn (which it will), the stage will be set for the next several decades of Tory rule to comfortably slide into place. They’ll work then to mend the economy, if that’s still even possible . Or it will be a war leader, which may be more necessary by then.

I don’t believe that Labour has any credibility. And if we haven’t caused a revolution by now (how many billions on the Queen’s funeral…?) it ain’t gunna happen. Even if Labour do win the next election there is too much sunk-cost fallacy invested in Tory wins to motivate people to rise up.

I really hope I’m wrong but that’s how I’m seeing this.
 
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