Live debate on gov support for unemployed

[jiggajagga]

On live now BBC Parl.

Duncan Smith sends his apologies for not being in the house but he has gone to civil service jamboree.

Not ONE single Lib Dem at the debate.

Says how much they care doesn't it.

 

[butchersapron]

None at all?

 

[treelover]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...n_on_incapacity_benefit_claimants_in_Burnley/

The pilot for the migration or kicking people off IB has begun in Burnley, the new LD MP, Gordon Birtwistle is fully behind it,

 

[jiggajagga]

proposal:- If on unemployment benefits for more than one year, housing benefit cut by 10%?

From your friendly Tories.

Seems to me like the way they wish to cut dole queues is to starve people back to work.

 

[butchersapron]

proposal:- If on unemployment benefits for more than one year, housing benefit cut by 10%?

From your friendly Tories.

Seems to me like the way they wish to cut dole queues is to starve people back to work.

That's not a proposal - it's already been announced in the Budget. And it's the lib-dems too.

 

[_angel_]

proposal:- If on unemployment benefits for more than one year, housing benefit cut by 10%?

From your friendly Tories.

Seems to me like the way they wish to cut dole queues is to starve people back to work.

Nah - what work? They just want to starve people or force them into homelessness.

 

[fractionMan]

I'd not heard that one before. (the 10% cut after a year)

That's really fucking low.

 

[treelover]

I have received numerous emails from online friends, seen many more comments in on-line support communities, from people who are stockpiling medication with the intention of suicide.

They find it hard enough living with the conditions they have, the pain they are in, without the additional humiliation and stress currently being applied.

There are a large number of medical conditions that the current WCA does not take account of, including MS, Fibromyalgia and ME/CFS. In other words conditions that completely debilitate people with little to no hope of recovery.

Someone posted this on Guardian CIF, i have no reason to disbelieve them, many disability boards are full of simiilar, we have had some sort of welfare state for over 60 years, this is not the US, most people will not internalise poverty, etc as personal failure and will look for various solutions.

 

[ericjarvis]

Someone posted this on Guardian CIF, i have no reason to disbelieve them, many disability boards are full of simiilar, we have had some sort of welfare state for over 60 years, this is not the US, most people will not internalise poverty, etc as personal failure and will look for various solutions.

I'm working on the basis that when I reach the end of my tether, which could be before the end of the year at this rate, I will not commit suicide. However I may see the best way forward as spending the remainder of my life in prison, and can immediately think of several hundred very appropriate ways of ensuring it happens.

 

[killer b]

several hundred very appropriate ways of ensuring it happens.

362 to be precise?

 

[ViolentPanda]

proposal:- If on unemployment benefits for more than one year, housing benefit cut by 10%?

From your friendly Tories.

Seems to me like the way they wish to cut dole queues is to starve people back to work.

What work?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Someone posted this on Guardian CIF, i have no reason to disbelieve them, many disability boards are full of simiilar, we have had some sort of welfare state for over 60 years, this is not the US, most people will not internalise poverty, etc as personal failure and will look for various solutions.

Fuck topping yourself. I'd top a politician instead. That way I'd either get death by cop or cost a fortune to keep inside.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm working on the basis that when I reach the end of my tether, which could be before the end of the year at this rate, I will not commit suicide. However I may see the best way forward as spending the remainder of my life in prison, and can immediately think of several hundred very appropriate ways of ensuring it happens.

Or a single way with 615 results.

 

[ericjarvis]

362 to be precise?

I couldn't possibly comment.

btw can anyone lend me a samurai sword?

 

[treelover]

'The Government recently announced that everyone on incapacity benefit will have to go through tests known as Work Capability Assessments to see if they are fit for work. The Department for Work and Pensions estimates that, of the 1.5 million people currently on IB, 750,000 will move on to jobseeker's allowance (JSA), 300,000 will move on to other benefits, and 450,000 will come off benefits entirely.'



this is pretty incredible, so half of people on IB are fully able to work, while nearly half a million are not eligible as they are fully fit and should'nt be claiming at all, crazy

 

[fractionMan]

wankers

 

[treelover]

When will a large claimants union movement begin again, or is passitivity the norm in the modern age?

 

[treelover]

'Since October 2008, all new claimants who suffer from ill health, have had to apply for ESA which includes a stricter medical test. More than two-thirds of applicants are failing in their claims. On average only 5% of claimants are deemed unfit for work and eligible for the ESA. A further 13% are referred for "work-related activity" but are still able to claim ESA, while 39% are judged fit for work, and the rest do not pursue their claims. Under the new rules, many claimants have been deemed fit for work while suffering from Parkinson`s Disease, Cancer and Multiple Sclerosis. In one case, which The Times referred to, a woman who could barely walk or breathe was judged fit for work just five months before she died of lung cancer. The new medical tests (50,000 a month) are being undertaken by doctors and nurses employed by Atos Healthcare, a private company. On average it finds that only 5% of claimants are unfit to work. However, around 8,000 people a month are now appealing against these decisions at the tribunals and almost half are winning their cases.'


all this must be costing a fortune, and how brutal it all is.

 

[ericjarvis]

These are the bastards making the money off it all.

 

[ViolentPanda]

'The Government recently announced that everyone on incapacity benefit will have to go through tests known as Work Capability Assessments to see if they are fit for work. The Department for Work and Pensions estimates that, of the 1.5 million people currently on IB, 750,000 will move on to jobseeker's allowance (JSA), 300,000 will move on to other benefits, and 450,000 will come off benefits entirely.'



this is pretty incredible, so half of people on IB are fully able to work, while nearly half a million are not eligible as they are fully fit and should'nt be claiming at all, crazy

Figures are fucked. Before the election these fuckbags were claiming that there were 2,8 million IB claimants, now it's 1.5 million?
Or is that quote just really badly worded and they're saying that there's 1.5 million claimants of the benefit (out of 2 million plus) who shouldn't be getting it, and of whom 750,000 will be booted off, 300,000 will be bumped onto JSA and 450,000 will be left destitute?

 

[ViolentPanda]

When will a large claimants union movement begin again, or is passitivity the norm in the modern age?

In this case, "passivity" comes from people knowing just how badly they can be mistreated by the benefits system if they try to organise directly.

 

[treelover]

What's welfare about this?
Wednesday 07 July 2010
John Wight

Few reading this will know who Paul Reekie was. Aged 48, he was recently found dead at his home in Edinburgh. No suicide note was left, but on the table were two letters. One had just informed him that his housing benefit was being stopped. The other had been sent to inform him that his incapacity benefit was also being stopped.

According to close friends, Reekie had been suffering the after-effects of a serious assault. It was also known that he had personal demons to contend with. '

from the Morning Star

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/92490

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

Few reading this will know who Paul Reekie was.

More info about him here
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/obituaries/paul-reekie-poet-writer-iconoclast-1.1034799

and a letter to George Osborne about his untimely demise from one of his friends
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2010/06/26/letter-to-george-osbourne/

 

[ericjarvis]

So the next stage is to collate ALL the reports of the deaths caused by the benefit cuts, and start sending complete lists to Osborne et al, pointing out that he is directly responsible for each and every death caused by his policies.

Can anyone spare the dosh to set up a web site? As a benefit claimant I haven't a hope, and I'm not in a state to organise it either (or I'd be fit to work) but I think that georgeosbornekilledthem.org.uk should exist as a place where we can "name the dead".

The ONLY way this is going to change is by ministers and civil servants being held directly and personally accountable for the consequences of their decisions. This is a policy of kill the poor, but on the basis that since they claim not to be intentionally targeting people who really need the benefits it isn't their fault that there is some "collateral damage". Well fuck off Georgie Boy. If you set targets for reducing benefits BEFORE you find out how many people actually need them, then every single person that dies because they couldn't cope is YOUR personal responsibility. Their blood is on your hands on a very up close and personal way. We should do something to make sure that everyone is aware of that.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

So the next stage is to collate ALL the reports of the deaths caused by the benefit cuts, and start sending complete lists to Osborne et al, pointing out that he is directly responsible for each and every death caused by his policies.

Can anyone spare the dosh to set up a web site? As a benefit claimant I haven't a hope, and I'm not in a state to organise it either (or I'd be fit to work) but I think that georgeosbornekilledthem.org.uk should exist as a place where we can "name the dead".

The ONLY way this is going to change is by ministers and civil servants being held directly and personally accountable for the consequences of their decisions. This is a policy of kill the poor, but on the basis that since they claim not to be intentionally targeting people who really need the benefits it isn't their fault that there is some "collateral damage". Well fuck off Georgie Boy. If you set targets for reducing benefits BEFORE you find out how many people actually need them, then every single person that dies because they couldn't cope is YOUR personal responsibility. Their blood is on your hands on a very up close and personal way. We should do something to make sure that everyone is aware of that.

Set up a website that lists all the suicides and other deaths than can be connected directly to the benefits system?

I think it's an excellent idea - we can set one up for free using blogger or wordpress.

And yes I think that's exactly whats going to happen, a big increase in suicides.

 

[frogwoman]

Set up a website that lists all the suicides and other deaths than can be connected directly to the benefits system?

I think it's an excellent idea - we can set one up for free using blogger or wordpress.

And yes I think that's exactly whats going to happen, a big increase in suicides.

Good idea. I'd be willing to help out with it.

 

[sihhi]

So the next stage is to collate ALL the reports of the deaths caused by the benefit cuts, and start sending complete lists to Osborne et al, pointing out that he is directly responsible for each and every death caused by his policies.

No offence, but it's meaningless sending them. VITW used to send names of killed soldiers in Iraq/ Afghanistan.

Telling a monster 'You're a monster' is meaningless. Other monster-supporters will create lists of "benefit cheats".

Somehow, I'm not sure how, we have to get to the heart of the problem -- the rich people in their mansions, and take away clothes and cars from them.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Somehow, I'm not sure how, we have to get to the heart of the problem -- the rich people in their mansions, and take away clothes and cars from them.

We need guns, baseball bats, pick axe handles, and a steely will.

 

[treelover]

not sure about this, what about the families, it would have to be done very delicately, but publicising as much as possible the sad news would be ok,

btw, I wonder if people know there is a memorial to those who have died as a result of unemployment, its somewhere in London, etc it was set up by the family of the guy who rammed No 10's gates and was killed in the 80's.

 

[ericjarvis]

Set up a website that lists all the suicides and other deaths than can be connected directly to the benefits system?

I think it's an excellent idea - we can set one up for free using blogger or wordpress.

And yes I think that's exactly whats going to happen, a big increase in suicides.

I'd suggest using a US based web host and spending the extra to get a domain name that directly associates it with a targeted government minister. Probably Osborne as he's the most closely associated with Cameron.

I also envisage a front page that has a latest news on benefit cuts section, and advice on appealling section, an advice on suicide prevention section, as well as a link to the list itself. That way there's also something positive being done, an example of giving a damn in precisely the way the government doesn't.