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You are wrong here - a defining characteristic of the Chinese state is its tendency towards standardisation and enforced assimilation. The contemporary efforts to sinify Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang and Tibet are merely a continuation of a millenia long process.

The agreements on the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor included specific proposals for imposing Chinese culture.


That's interesting about Pakistan, but it's not comparable to American imperialism. For the second half of the twentieth century the entire world watched American movies, wore American clothes, listened to American music and adopted American popular culture. It's inconceivable that Chinese culture will ever enjoy a similar influence. At least, it's inconceivable to me. How about you?
 
That's interesting about Pakistan, but it's not comparable to American imperialism. For the second half of the twentieth century the entire world watched American movies, wore American clothes, listened to American music and adopted American popular culture. It's inconceivable that Chinese culture will ever enjoy a similar influence. At least, it's inconceivable to me. How about you?
The success of Hollywood et al is something China aims to replicate and spends a great deal of money on, albeit with disappointing results.

E2A: Also I don't think your argument that America is a worse hegemon because their entertainment is higher quality is convincing.

Aside from US prosperity, there are a range of reasons why US entertainment became dominant and they aren't particularly malign.

As a migrant nation, American entertainment tends to be less culturally specific and carries a more universalist appeal.

The melting pot also leads to cultural innovation, e.g. African influences leading to Jazz, Blues etc.

The British Empire established English as a widely spoken language, creating a larger potential market for US entertainment even beyond the already large US market itself.
 
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The success of Hollywood et al is something China aims to replicate and spends a great deal of money on, albeit with disappointing results.

E2A: Also I don't think your argument that America is a worse hegemon because their entertainment is higher quality is convincing.

Aside from US prosperity, there are a range of reasons why US entertainment became dominant and they aren't particularly malign.

As a migrant nation, American entertainment tends to be less culturally specific and carries a more universalist appeal.

The melting pot also leads to cultural innovation, e.g. African influences leading to Jazz, Blues etc.

The British Empire established English as a widely spoken language, creating a larger potential market for US entertainment even beyond the already large US market itself.
Actually. It was talking pictures that cemented English as the dominant culture in the US
 
The success of Hollywood et al is something China aims to replicate and spends a great deal of money on, albeit with disappointing results.

E2A: Also I don't think your argument that America is a worse hegemon because their entertainment is higher quality is convincing.

Aside from US prosperity, there are a range of reasons why US entertainment became dominant and they aren't particularly malign.

As a migrant nation, American entertainment tends to be less culturally specific and carries a more universalist appeal.

The melting pot also leads to cultural innovation, e.g. African influences leading to Jazz, Blues etc.

The British Empire established English as a widely spoken language, creating a larger potential market for US entertainment even beyond the already large US market itself.

Yes, and that's exactly why China doesn't practice cultural imperialism. In my view, cultural imperialism is a bad thing. And although I agree with what you say about the quality of American culture, I don't think its global dominance is a matter of taste. I think it's a direct result of America's economic and military dominance.
 
No. It's because they don't speak in a foreign language - avoiding a big mistake that many foreign countries make. That's why the USA is so influential culturally. The most culturally influential country on the planet after Scotland.
 
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If only people though about these things more and not assume. It "pays" to pay a little extra for a more ethical or British made brand.

I agree in principle but i don't think much clothes are made in the uk anymore. And of course not everyone can afford to be "ethical".
 
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Yes, and that's exactly why China doesn't practice cultural imperialism. In my view, cultural imperialism is a bad thing. And although I agree with what you say about the quality of American culture, I don't think its global dominance is a matter of taste. I think it's a direct result of America's economic and military dominance.
If its a result of economic and military dominance alone, doesn't it follow that China will be the same if they had economic and military dominance?
 
"China doesn't practice cultural imperialism."

What an absolute weapon and an insult to so many people.

This binary thinking reminds me of those old weather houses, my nan had one:

old fashioned weather house.png

When it was sunny, the woman would come out with her little basket and bonnet; when it wet, the man would come out with his umbrella.
It was a nice little novelty thing but it wasn't that sophisticated. What is it's sunny AND raining?
What if Western hegemony bad AND Eastern hegemony bad?
What if all hegemony is just bad, and the ruling classes everywhere want to screw people over for their own gain?
Nah, doesn't compute.
 
If its a result of economic and military dominance alone, doesn't it follow that China will be the same if they had economic and military dominance?

You yourself just pointed out some reasons why that won't happen.

But more important imho, the Chinese don't want to impose their culture on other nations. The USA does, and not just its culture either--its form of economy and government too. The USA sincerely believes that it would be best for other nations if they were just like the USA. It's because they believe in progress, and they see Western nations as more advanced than others.
 
"China doesn't practice cultural imperialism."

What an absolute weapon and an insult to so many people.

This binary thinking reminds me of those old weather houses, my nan had one:

View attachment 402516

When it was sunny, the woman would come out with her little basket and bonnet; when it wet, the man would come out with his umbrella.
It was a nice little novelty thing but it wasn't that sophisticated. What is it's sunny AND raining?
What if Western hegemony bad AND Eastern hegemony bad?
What if all hegemony is just bad, and the ruling classes everywhere want to screw people over for their own gain?
Nah, doesn't compute.
You’re angry over mechanical toys and what they might represent?
Jesus.
 
You asked me why I thought your Hong Kong mates lived "here." I said that my answer would depend on where "here" is. So where is "here"?

The UK, which you know you’d expect. Your starter for ten is answering why so many HK people have moved here recently and how it’s not related to Chinese imperialism


You may use both sides of the paper and green ink is expected but not essential
 
Yes they do. They aspire to US level of cultural domination. I lived there for 5 years and am fairly fluent in Chinese.

I've spent a few months in Beijing. I know it's not the same as 5 years, but I must say I didn't encounter any of that. Quite the reverse if anything, they generally assumed that Chinese culture was for Chinese people.

But I'll take your word for it. How do they reckon they'll convince us all to copy them? They're rubbish at rock music for a start.
 
I've spent a few months in Beijing. I know it's not the same as 5 years, but I must say I didn't encounter any of that. Quite the reverse if anything, they generally assumed that Chinese culture was for Chinese people.

But I'll take your word for it. How do they reckon they'll convince us all to copy them? They're rubbish at rock music for a start.
They treat cultural industries the same way as other industries and with the same economic strategy.

They have long encouraged joint ventures between Hollywood and Chinese studios as a means of studying Hollywood production methodologies and technologies. This is well known and documented. Here's an article from 2012:


There were major efforts to get Chinese Blockbusters by getting joint productions with Hollywood stars in, for example The Great Wall with Matt Damon, but these generally flopped because you don't automatically get a hit just for having a star.


In recent years, China has started to close its market to Hollywood to try and promote their own films. This is because they had decided they had learned enough from Hollywood and then aimed to reduce domestic competition from Hollywood movies to get more money towards their own movie industry which they believed would translate into global dominance.


Indeed in 2021 the 2nd, 3rd and 6th highest grossing movies were Chinese, even if 99% of their box office takings was domestic:


It's worth noting that technically these movies are competent productions, with production values comparable to those of Hollywood blockbusters, however this doesn't translate into a good or popular movie. But if you were reading Chinese state media at the time there appeared to be genuine expectation that The Battle of Lake Changjin would be an international blockbuster. For instance:


The Battle at Lake Changjin’ a successful cultural export to make the world begin to listen to the voice of China
By Gong Qian
Published: Oct 17, 2021 06:39 PM
Eighteen days after its premier, the war epic The Battle at Lake Changjin has grossed over 4.8 billion yuan ($ 745.8 million) and smashed 24 records in Chinese film history, including becoming the first Chinese film to break 400 million yuan at the daily box office for six consecutive days.

The Battle at Lake Changjin is just one of several nationalist films that have become big commercial hits in China in recent years, but its influence across the country is unprecedented. The blockbuster is set to become China’s highest-grossing film ever, while its biggest highlight is that it has achieved a high degree of national empathy and cultural output for Chinese films heading overseas, which is a hard-to-reach achievement for other commercial movies.


Overseas audiences excited about China's war epic released in the UK
By Global Times
Published: Nov 20, 2021 11:19 AM

Trinity Cine Asia released China's war epic "The Battle at Lake Changjin" in cinemas across the UK and Ireland on Friday. The film is currently the highest-grossing title in China as well as in the world so far in 2021, having earned more than 5.62 billion yuan ($879million) since its premiere in China on September 30, according to figures reported by the Xinhua News Agency.

"It's a privilege for us to be able to release the biggest box office story of 2021, when cinemas are just seeing the first real shoots of recovery," said Trinity Cine Asia co-founder and director Cedric Behrel on November 12.

"'Battle at Lake Changjin' presents a fresh viewpoint which hasn't been seen before, reframing the war film narrative we're used to seeing, but with production values to match Hollywood," Behrel said. "The film falls into the war film template of decisive battles that changed the course of history. It has hit a particular nerve with Chinese audiences ̶ maybe because most popular war films are made from a Hollywood or American perspective [such as those about] the Vietnam War."

There was also considerable sour grapes when the movie failed to meet expectations. They absolutely do seek to promote Chinese cinema


China to promote overseas film market, strengthen cultural confidence
By Wang Qi (Global Times) 08:05, July 15, 2019

China's film bureau has vowed to push Chinese films to enter the global market and nurture "Chinese-style" blockbusters that boost patriotism and the national spirit.

During a conference on last week, Wang Xiaojun, head of the China's State Film Administration pointed out that China's film industry has achieved great success in recent years, media reported Saturday.

China's box-office income in 2018 reached 61 billion yuan ($9.1 billion), making the country the world's second largest film market. China produced 1,082 films in 2018, 20 percent more than the previous year, ranking it third after the US and India, said Wang.

China has the world's largest number of screens, with more than 60,000 screens, 20,000 more than North America, Xinhua reported.

Wang said a lack of high quality films is an issue that China's film industry needs to overcome.

Using more international themes and improving translation will help Chinese filmmakers promote their films on the international market, said Wang.

The Chinese sci-fi film The Wander Earth is the latest domestic blockbuster to successfully enter the global market. The film made $3.28 million in the first 11 days the film was released in North America, the most for a Chinese film in five years. In China the movie was a megahit, earning a reported $699.7 million.

Not to mention that China spends billions on their foreign language media (CGTN), albeit to limited success:


The reason they fail is a combination of cultural barriers, political interference limiting creative scope of the movies, and a flawed understanding of what appeals to non-Chinese audiences. It is absolutely not because they aren't interested.

It's also clearly not true that they don't want to export their system. China tends to support authoritarian regimes and has a vested interest in undermining democratic rights because they are perceived as a threat and are less stable partners. This lies behind their alliance with Russia and support for Orban's Hungary.


They also aim to support the Thai military dictatorship and monarchy against the democratic movement:


The collapse of democracy in Cambodia is also a by-product of Chinese influence:



Cambodia’s journey from democracy back to authoritarianism, and China’s influence in the process, goes beyond merely supporting Hun Sen financially. It also involves replicating China’s development model in Cambodia. With China’s backing, Hun Sen not only cracked down on the opposition in just two years, but has also fully embraced the “China model” in the last eight years. Cambodia has become a haven for Chinese-operated cyber scams, where people, often young and well-educated, are tricked into working in slavery-like conditions and forced to defraud people online.

Development projects are carried out without regard to social and environmental impacts. In September 2023, the BBC reported that development of the Dara Sakor seashore resort remains unfinished after 15 years, but has been carried out with little or no evaluation of the human and environmental costs. In mid-2020, the United States imposed sanctions on Union Development Group (UDG), the Chinese company that owns the project.
 
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If only people though about these things more and not assume. It "pays" to pay a little extra for a more ethical or British made brand.
Not everyone can afford to. It's totally shit that this is allowed to happen in the first place, but British-made clothes are far too expensive for most people.
 
They treat cultural industries the same way as other industries and with the same economic strategy.

They have long encouraged joint ventures between Hollywood and Chinese studios as a means of studying Hollywood production methodologies and technologies. This is well known and documented. Here's an article from 2012:


There were major efforts to get Chinese Blockbusters by getting joint productions with Hollywood stars in, for example The Great Wall with Matt Damon, but these generally flopped because you don't automatically get a hit just for having a star.


In recent years, China has started to close its market to Hollywood to try and promote their own films. This is because they had decided they had learned enough from Hollywood and then aimed to reduce domestic competition from Hollywood movies to get more money towards their own movie industry which they believed would translate into global dominance.


Indeed in 2021 the 2nd, 3rd and 6th highest grossing movies were Chinese, even if 99% of their box office takings was domestic:


It's worth noting that technically these movies are competent productions, with production values comparable to those of Hollywood blockbusters, however this doesn't translate into a good or popular movie. But if you were reading Chinese state media at the time there appeared to be genuine expectation that The Battle of Lake Changjin would be an international blockbuster. For instance:







There was also considerable sour grapes when the movie failed to meet expectations. They absolutely do seek to promote Chinese cinema




Not to mention that China spends billions on their foreign language media (CGTN), albeit to limited success:


The reason they fail is a combination of cultural barriers, political interference limiting creative scope of the movies, and a flawed understanding of what appeals to non-Chinese audiences. It is absolutely not because they aren't interested.

It's also clearly not true that they don't want to export their system. China tends to support authoritarian regimes and has a vested interest in undermining democratic rights because they are perceived as a threat and are less stable partners. This lies behind their alliance with Russia and support for Orban's Hungary.


They also aim to support the Thai military dictatorship and monarchy against the democratic movement:


The collapse of democracy in Cambodia is also a by-product of Chinese influence:



Very interesting, thanks.

Of course many powerful nations promote their own popular culture as commodity, for profit. That's part of economic imperialism, not cultural imperialism. What I mean by "cultural imperialism" is when the people of one culture start to imitate the dress, music and slang of another, to consume its popular culture in preference to their own. That happened with the USA in the C20th, but I can't imagine it happening with China in the C21st. I don't think the Chinese would want it to.

And I can't agree that China is committed to supporting tyranny abroad as a matter of principle. I think their foreign policy operates strictly on realpolitik.
 
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