Leave-supporting Llanelli left reeling as manufacturing industry moves out due to Brexit

[pseudonarcissus]

Nope.

What your wiggle does show though is a woeful ignorance of the difference between the customs union and single market.

Nissan moves to Sunderland due to EEC quotas for Japanese cars.

 

[Raheem]

Is "the crankshaft of a Mini crosses the channel 3 times before installation" a good thing? Is it progress?

Reckon it's going to depend on your perspective. But, if progress is what matters, then fewer car parts having to cross the channel could count as an upside of Brexit, sure.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You bitter person. Where the fuck is your compassion?

Yes, compassion is deserved, of course it is. Actions do have consequences though, and there is a dreadful sense of irony, the area votes for Brexit, Brexit closes a major employer.

 

[pseudonarcissus]

Reckon it's going to depend on your perspective. But, if progress is what matters, then fewer car parts having to cross the channel could count as an upside of Brexit, sure.

for the Dutch factory that already makes 30% of Minis, probably yes.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yes, compassion is deserved, of course it is. Actions do have consequences though, and there is a dreadful sense of irony, the area votes for Brexit, Brexit closes a major employer.

Major employer who over extended itself by buying a company three times its size decides to “reduce its footprint” and close a plant, to be more exact.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Major employer who over extended itself by buying a company three times its size decides to “reduce its footprint” and close a plant, to be more exact.

If you run a company, and are looking to make cuts or engage in a bit of old fashioned capital flight to lower wage economies/trade union free zones then Brexit is your go to excuse. Even better, daft twats will be lining to help make your case for you.

 

[pocketscience]

If you run a company, and are looking to make cuts or engage in a bit of old fashioned capital flight to lower wage economies/trade union free zones then Brexit is your go to excuse. Even better, daft twats will be lining to help make your case for you.

innit. even the flagship EU poster boy Airbus: zero jobs increase in the EU over the last decade yet creates new final assembly lines in China and Alabama, a right-to-work state where unions are banned.
It really has come to something when American unions are criticising Europeans for undermining their workers' collective bargaining powers.

U.S. unions disappointed with Airbus Alabama location | Reuters
Airbus, unionized in Europe, wants no such thing in Mobile

 

[happie chappie]

If you run a company, and are looking to make cuts or engage in a bit of old fashioned capital flight to lower wage economies/trade union free zones then Brexit is your go to excuse. Even better, daft twats will be lining to help make your case for you.

Surely the capital flight would happen whether we leave the EU or not.

In any case employers looking to move abroad don’t only consider labour costs (although this is undoubtedly one consideration) but a whole host of other factors such as proximity to markets, availability of skilled labour, state incentives to relocate, the regulatory environment, impartiality of the judicial system, levels of corruption, political stability of the host country and so on.

That's why I doubt many UK manufacturers will be relocating to a low-wage, trade union free, Russia in a hurry.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

innit. even the flagship EU poster boy Airbus: zero jobs increase in the EU over the last decade yet creates new final assembly lines in China and Alabama, a right-to-work state where unions are banned.

Spot on. The gullibility of the remainers, whether as a result of genuine stupidity or for disingenuous point scoring reasons, on this stuff boils my piss.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Surely the capital flight would happen whether we leave the EU or not.

Yes. I’ve never suggested otherwise. What I’ve taken issue with is the suggestion that remain might militate business strategies.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Spot on. The gullibility of the remainers, whether as a result of genuine stupidity or for disingenuous point scoring reasons, on this stuff boils my piss.

You better insulate your bladder, we are not leaving.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

You better insulate your bladder, we are not leaving.

Regardless of what lash up the political class arrive at these lies need confronting. The fact that it needs confronting among those who identify as socialists/the left is especially frustrating.

 

[yield]

Surely the capital flight would happen whether we leave the EU or not.

In any case employers looking to move abroad don’t only consider labour costs (although this is undoubtedly one consideration) but a whole host of other factors such as proximity to markets, availability of skilled labour, state incentives to relocate, the regulatory environment, impartiality of the judicial system, levels of corruption, political stability of the host country and so on.

That's why I doubt many UK manufacturers will be relocating to a low-wage, trade union free, Russia in a hurry.

The City of London and others tax havens facilitate capital flight and tax evasion

 

[danny la rouge]

*starts argument about Kevin Barry*

 

[Supine]

Spot on. The gullibility of the remainers, whether as a result of genuine stupidity or for disingenuous point scoring reasons, on this stuff boils my piss.

And what of the 14,000 airbus employees in the UK that remainers are worried about? You happy sending them down the river if hard brexit occurs? It certainly isn't improving their job prospects.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

And what of the 14,000 airbus employees in the UK that remainers are worried about? You happy sending them down the river if hard brexit occurs? It certainly isn't improving their job prospects.

What the fuck are you on about?

Read what I’ve said. It’s not about Brexit - I’ve been writing about corporate strategies and lies, union busting and capital flight. All of which Airbus has form for.

 

[Supine]

It's not about brexit? This is a brexit thread and a brexit reality. There are other forces that impact these decisions, as you've mentioned, but brexit is a major factor.

 

[Raheem]

How is anything starting "The gullibility of remainders..." not about Brexit?

 

[pocketscience]

How is anything starting "The gullibility of remainders..." not about Brexit?

Smokeandsteam was talking about the redundancies not being about Brexit.
I doubt very much that the gullibility of remainers has anything to do with Brexit either tbf. Maybe breastfeeding for far too long in infancy caused it?

 

[mauvais]

What the fuck are you on about?

Read what I’ve said. It’s not about Brexit - I’ve been writing about corporate strategies and lies, union busting and capital flight. All of which Airbus has form for.

How much detail do you know about Airbus?

The British had the option to be much more heavily involved in Airbus or EADS as was. British Aerospace before it became BAES, itself fully privatised, could have merged with it but instead chose to pursue a trans-Atlantic path instead, ditching lots of European and UK opportunities to do so. This was the biggest factor in destabilising Filton & Broughton's long term future because it's left to Airbus' own behest rather than something the UK govt can easily influence as a conditional part of its dodgy arms purchasing. Now we largely buy from the Americans.

Meanwhile, in order to ever sell anything back to the other Americans, as demonstrated by Tankergate, Airbus needed to establish US-based facilities. That's why Mobile is a thing now - protectionism and politics.

Despite the usual patterns of work moving to China & so on, I think your job would be relatively stable if you worked in Toulouse. The French government looks after that, not least by owning about 11%. We as a country decided that that, and other elements like pan-European projects, weren't worthwhile, and our aviation industry is in slow decline and at further risk as a result.

That's not to get Airbus off the hook, or indeed excuse the outcomes of a capitalist process, but much as it is with the EU, we did choose not to play the game to our advantage and now we're unhappy with the result.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

How is anything starting "The gullibility of remainders..." not about Brexit?

My next post starts ‘regardless of the lash up {Brexit} the political class arrive at’.

Can you see that whilst this debate is about Brexit the points I’ve been making about corporate decision making applies, in my view, in all scenarios? Have a think

 

[pocketscience]

Mother and Son Lose $16 Billion in 2018 as Continental Sinks

The majority shareholders of German car-parts maker Continental AG have lost about $16 billion -- more than half of their combined wealth -- so far this year.

Continental Chairman Georg Schaeffler and his mother Maria-Elisabeth Schaeffler-Thumann, the vice chairman, have seen their fortunes tumble 53 percent after the company warned that extra costs and tough business conditions in Europe and Asia would weigh on profits. A senior executive said this week that the challenges will persist into 2019.


Maria-Elisabeth Schaeffler-Thumann and Georg Schaeffler.Source: Schaeffler Group
They’re now worth a combined $14.1 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, after the biggest wealth drop this year among Europe’s richest families. The mother and son also control Schaeffler AG, a publicly traded German engineering group that has faced similar pressures as Continental, the world’s second-largest car-parts maker. Shares of both companies have plunged more than 40 percent this year.

Surprised Mr & Mrs Schaeffler haven't blamed Brexit for their astronomical loses.

How much detail do you know about Airbus?

The British had the option to be much more heavily involved in Airbus or EADS as was. British Aerospace before it became BAES, itself fully privatised, could have merged with it but instead chose to pursue a trans-Atlantic path instead, ditching lots of European and UK opportunities to do so. This was the biggest factor in destabilising Filton & Broughton's long term future because it's left to Airbus' own behest rather than something the UK govt can easily influence as a conditional part of its dodgy arms purchasing. Now we largely buy from the Americans.

Meanwhile, in order to ever sell anything back to the other Americans, as demonstrated by Tankergate, Airbus needed to establish US-based facilities. That's why Mobile is a thing now - protectionism and politics.

Despite the usual patterns of work moving to China & so on, I think your job would be relatively stable if you worked in Toulouse. The French government looks after that, not least by owning about 11%. We as a country decided that that, and other elements like pan-European projects, weren't worthwhile, and our aviation industry is in slow decline and at further risk as a result.

That's not to get Airbus off the hook, or indeed excuse the outcomes of a capitalist process, but much as it is with the EU, we did choose not to play the game to our advantage and now we're unhappy with the result.

No mention of Merkel blocking the BAe / EADS Merger in 2012?

 

[mauvais]

Mother and Son Lose $16 Billion in 2018 as Continental Sinks

Surprised Mr & Mrs Schaeffler haven't blamed Brexit for their astronomical loses.

No mention of Merkel blocking the BAe / EADS Merger in 2012?

The potential merger was about a decade after what I describe, long after BAES shunned Europe and civil aviation. It wasn't just Merkel either, lots of obstacles were produced. I think it would have been quite different if they'd gone for it in the mid-2000s.

 

[pocketscience]

The potential merger was about a decade after what I describe, long after BAES shunned Europe and civil aviation. It wasn't just Merkel either, lots of obstacles were produced. I think it would have been quite different if they'd gone for it in the mid-2000s.

Yeah but BAe was a major shareholder in the period you describe. They sold up old when Tom Enders took over after the A380 Delays. He made it clear at the time that he was going to shed Airbus of government involvement (which he managed to do) and make it an entirely private company. That wasn't a British decision.
Also, the UK is still involved in loads of pan European/ International Joint Ventures and partnerships. From Westand/ Augusta/ Leonardo to Rolls Royce/MTU.. I'm not sure what point your making but the UK was always fully invested in Airbus, and its Airbus' wishes alone (Under the German CEO) to be in under full private ownership.
And as for the Toulouse workers feeling safe. No, a lot are well pissed off. as are the Germans in Ottobrunn, Hamburg and Bremen.
The contracts for new hires are terrible. The workers are being held to ransom under threat of offshoring with many being coerced into early retirement schemes.

 

[mauvais]

Yeah but BAe eas a major share holder inthe period you describe. They sold up old when Tom Enders took over after the A380 Delays. He made it clear at the timr that he was going to shed Airbus of government involvement (which he managed to do) and make it an entirely private company. That wasn't a british decision.
Also, the UK is still involvedbin loadsbof pan European/ international Joint Ventures and parnerships. From Westand/ Augusta/ Leonardo to Rolls Royce/MTU.. I'm not sure what point your making but thr UK was always vully invested in Airbus, and its Airbus' wishes alone (Under the German CEO) to be in under full private ownership.
And as for the Toulouse wotkers feeling safe. No, a lot are well pissed off. as are the germans in Ottobrunn, Hamburg and Bremen.
The contacts for new hires are terrible. The workers are being held to ransome under threat of offshoring with many being coerced into early retirement schemes.

I'm not sure your narrative quite stacks up. They were out of EADS ownership by 2006, which was the end of UK-owned civil aviation. That's before Enders in 2012. Airbus isn't private either - about 25% state owned.

As for Euro projects, sure, there's still work across borders and businesses, but only a baseline as seen in any globalised market. Think back to BAe's supply of work in the decades leading up to this - Jaguar, Tornado, Eurofighter etc - and now there's very little large scale, state-supported collaboration. You can argue cause & effect but had things gone differently there would likely have been a European JSF.

 

[DownwardDog]

The test will come when new models are to start production and whether they tool up Sunderland to make them or somewhere else.

The 3rd gen Qashqai is going to be built in Sunderland from 2020. The Note production has moved to Barcelona. Now that Lada is inside the Nissan/Renault group activity in Sunderland will eventually wind down. Why build cars in eBay Russia on Wearside when you can build them in the real thing?

 

[pocketscience]

I'm not sure your narrative quite stacks up. They were out of EADS ownership by 2006, which was the end of UK-owned civil aviation. That's before Enders in 2012. Airbus isn't private either - about 25% state owned.

As for Euro projects, sure, there's still work across borders and businesses, but only a baseline as seen in any globalised market. Think back to BAe's supply of work in the decades leading up to this - Jaguar, Tornado, Eurofighter etc - and now there's very little large scale, state-supported collaboration. You can argue cause & effect but had things gone differently there would likely have been a European JSF.

It stacks up fine. Enders arrived at Airbus in 2005 to take the reins from Forgeard who was feeling the heat from the A380 delays (and subsequent insider trading scandal). He stated right away that he'd persue a more privatised company.

Putting that 25% into context, how much was state-owned when BAe left in 2006?

 

[happie chappie]

The City of London and others tax havens facilitate capital flight and tax evasion

I know but capital doesn’t just disappear. It has to “go” somewhere either to earn a better return and/or to a safe haven. The point I was making is that the destination isn’t solely determined by the cost of labour. Otherwise Syria would be drowning in foreign investment.