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Lampedusa boat disaster: Divers recover more bodies

weltweit

Well-Known Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24418779
Divers in Italy have been recovering more bodies from the boat of African migrants that sank on Thursday.
Seventy bodies were brought out on Sunday, bringing the official death toll to 181. About 200 people are still missing and 155 have survived the accident off Lampedusa island.

It is a pretty shocking disaster.
And highlights the very real risks people are prepared to make to get to Europe.
 
I heard a very insensitive spokesman or other who when questioned about the high death toll answered by saying "Africans can't swim!" pretty incredible thing to say. But anyhow, my understanding is that the boat sank a long way from Lampedusa, so it was a long swim for those that could.
 
I heard a very insensitive spokesman or other who when questioned about the high death toll answered by saying "Africans can't swim!" pretty incredible thing to say. But anyhow, my understanding is that the boat sank a long way from Lampedusa, so it was a long swim for those that could.
:facepalm:

Tis true though that a lot of poor migrants can't swim, as dylanredefined says.
 
I heard a very insensitive spokesman or other who when questioned about the high death toll answered by saying "Africans can't swim!" pretty incredible thing to say. But anyhow, my understanding is that the boat sank a long way from Lampedusa, so it was a long swim for those that could.
I heard someone on PM on R4 say that. They went back to it in a later programme as there'd been a lot of complaints and apparently it's true by and large. The risk of water-bourn diseases and predators and Africans being less naturally buoyant, tending to have having less body fat, means they tend not to learn. In this case the boat was relatively close to shore, about a kilometre - a swimmable distance, that makes it all the more tragic.
 
A swimmable distance if your a fucking navy seal:mad:

A kilometre open water swim at night in your clothes yeah perfectly doable:rolleyes:

An ability to swim might have kept you alive until your rescued but your not swimming to shore:mad:
 
A swimmable distance if your a fucking navy seal:mad:

A kilometre open water swim at night in your clothes yeah perfectly doable:rolleyes:

An ability to swim might have kept you alive until your rescued but your not swimming to shore:mad:

Isn't that the normal advice if you're in a boat that capsizes - stay with the wreckage, don't try to swim your way to safety.

As for the African swimming thing, when I was in Ghana a couple of years back I saw quite a few locals swim out to their fishing boats, cool as you like.
 
...The risk of water-bourn diseases and predators and Africans being less naturally buoyant, tending to have having less body fat, means they tend not to learn...

This is about Asia. Source: http://swimsafe.org/
Current research shows that 95% of all childhood drowning deaths occur in Asia, home to two-thirds of the world’s children. In rich countries, generations of public education campaigns have created a culture of water safety. This culture, together with good governance, has led to the development of laws and regulations that help protect children from possible drowning hazards. Communities mobilize to create safer places for children to live and play. As a result, while drowning remains a leading cause of child death, the numbers are relatively low. For example, in 2008 there were 50 child drowning deaths in all of Australia. In contrast, in Bangladesh in 2008 on average that same number – 50 children—drowned each and every day of the entire year. This extraordinary difference is not just due to the difference in population size between the two countries; the child drowning rate in Bangladesh was over 21 times higher than in Australia when comparisons were based on the size of child populations.

This is about African Americans (BBC article):
source: Why don't black Americans swim?

...the fatal drowning rate of African-American children aged five-14 is three times that of white children...Unlike the UK, where learning to swim is enshrined in the national curriculum except in Scotland, the ultimate responsibility in the US often lies with parents...
Many black parents are not teaching their children to swim...Some might assume the fundamental reasons would be lack of money for swimming lessons or living in areas where there were no pools, but the reality is more complex..."Fear of drowning or fear of injury was really the major variable," says Prof Carol Irwin, a sociologist from the University of Memphis, who led the study for USA Swimming...Typically, those children who could not swim also had parents who could not swim..."Parents who don't know how to swim are very likely to pass on not knowing how to swim to their children," says Ms Anderson...The major reason behind the problem could lie in the era of segregation says Prof Jeff Wiltse, author of Contested Waters: A Social History of Swimming Pools in America..."The history of discrimination… has contributed to the drowning and swimming rates," says Prof Wiltse...In his work he identified two periods of a boom in swimming rates in the US - in the 1920s and 1930s when recreational swimming became popular and the 1950s and 1960s when the idea of swimming as a sport really took off...

A technical article about "Swimmers - Is fatter faster?" (quick answer = it depends)

From the non-profit swimming site U.S. Masters Swimming: 'Blacks Don't Swim'

...There had been studies done in the 50s and 60s that claimed that since black athletes on average tend to have less body fat than their white counterparts, they would be poor swimmers since body fat creates buoyancy. Those studies have since been thoroughly debunked...
(also points out how many black US marines and SEALS pass the mandatory swimming tests, some famous black swimmers etc.)
 
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Just another BBC article

What freediving does to the body
The Bajau people, sometimes known as the sea gypsies of Malaysia and Indonesia, are renowned natural freedivers. Traditionally, they are born, live and die at sea, and fish by diving 20m (more than 65ft) underwater for minutes at a time on one breath...

Bajau divers have little body fat. The wiry frame of these subsistence fishermen may actually help. A lean physique is more efficient at using oxygen. And having little body fat makes Sulbin less buoyant, able to walk across the reef bed with ease. "This type of freediving - repeatedly diving to depths of 10 to 20m - carries the greatest risk of decompression sickness," says Farrell. "But you are less likely to get the bends if you are lean, or very well hydrated."
 
I didn't learn to swim until I was in my 40s and that was because I moved to a house with a pool. It's easy not to learn.
 
I didn't learn to swim until I was in my 40s and that was because I moved to a house with a pool. It's easy not to learn.

I've been trying to teach Mrs Spy to swim, on and off for 16 years. She's really keen too but hasn't got the hang of it, so we've decided to get her lessons at the local pool. If she cracks it this year she'll be 47!

She, like most of her family, just never learned as kids.
 
I've been trying to teach Mrs Spy to swim, on and off for 16 years. She's really keen too but hasn't got the hang of it, so we've decided to get her lessons at the local pool.<snip>
FWIW preventing drowning (or at least buying time) isn't merely a question of learning to swim. As with running, stamina and knowing how to pace yourself doesn't come overnight. Given that a lot of local swimming pools are 25m in length, it's very unlikely that anyone who isn't a serious swimmer gets anywhere near to being able to do 1km or further in water which has a current. Swimming on its own probably won't save your life, treading water and/or floating and/or drownproofing may improve your chances.
 
Obviusly the answer is slightly ethical people trafficing.
Buy a seaworthy ship hire some crew who know what the fuck their doing
Stanley edwards as the drunken ships cook profit!!!
Who wants to go dragons den with me?
 
Obviusly the answer is slightly ethical people trafficing.
Buy a seaworthy ship hire some crew who know what the fuck their doing
Stanley edwards as the drunken ships cook profit!!!
Who wants to go dragons den with me?
Okay, I could even nominate a ship's entertainer Corax
 
Hmm..

I was wondering more about the massive inequalities in the world that force people to try to migrate like this with the risks and costs involved, rather than inventing a better boat with better entertainment!
 
Hmm..

I was wondering more about the massive inequalities in the world that force people to try to migrate like this with the risks and costs involved, rather than inventing a better boat with better entertainment!
There was I assuming that it could be taken as read that these people are pretty desperate for a better life or there's no way they'd leave so much behind.

FWIW and this is dredging up what I remember of IR from several years ago, grassroots aid delivered directly shows more (and longer lasting) benefits, and works best of all when people are consulted on what they really need, with as little outside bias as possible.
 
<snip>Surely they would have already suffered enough?
You're right - I'll throw in Pickman's Model and Dwyer for good measure - they can go head to head and alternate with you.
 
There was I assuming that it could be taken as read that these people are pretty desperate for a better life or there's no way they'd leave so much behind.

I am just shocked by the whole thing, that so many come at the same time, that they come with this risky method, that this once they were caught out and so many paid with their lives, that presumably most will have paid trafficers for this, that they are driven towards Europe because of their poverty and war at home which does not seem to ever get better, that if they do manage to get here they will still be victims of a black market of cheap labour exploiting them because they probably won't have work permits etc etc .. that when here they will be further marginalised as illegals ..

This imbalance does not seem to be getting any better and climate change may exacerbate the drivers pushing people to migrate. We may see this times a hundred in the next fifty years.

FWIW and this is dredging up what I remember of IR from several years ago, grassroots aid delivered directly shows more (and longer lasting) benefits, and works best of all when people are consulted on what they really need, with as little outside bias as possible.

Africa seems very resistant to change. While China and perhaps India are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
 
<snip>Africa seems very resistant to change. While China and perhaps India are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
A bit sweeping, no? If indeed you can lump all of Africa together, IMHO what drives migration from there is mainly the political situation and a lack of maintained infrastructure. Fix those, and the people who currently want better and do everything they can to do better by travelling so far away etc will instead stay where they are and flourish where they are.

I didn't say it would be easy, did I? :(
 
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