Labour leadership
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Even though neither of is sure why I'm quoted here I'll give it a bash. I don't think it is as simple as more. I think Labour needs to offer a clear alternative. The SNP did, so did UKIP and they did relatively well. Just being seen as an incompetent Tories isn't going to do them many favours and if they manage to get elected on that platform what is the point?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Sometimes people say the same things over and over again because that's what they believe. I dunno why it's better to change your mind every time the papers print a new story about what everyone in the country thinks this week. You've got to put your foot down somewhere and then actually make an argument for that position, explain to people why you think they should agree with you; not just run around endlessly trying to agree with everyone at once.
The speed with which most of the Labour party have turned their backs on half the policies they pretended to support at the GE is pretty shameful really. It's not like there were any remotely radical policies there, just a handful of stuff designed to appeal to the left to counteract the stuff designed to appeal to the right.
Corbin's position is anti-austerity. That is it basically. He has not changed his politics to follow fashion. It is the Labour Party that is in a state, not the left. Jeremy Corbin will not become Prime Minister, he wouldn't want to be I think. He likes to work from the back benches. He has only been put up to remind the party that it once had some values and to show up the shower who are standing. In the end they will get some middle of the road person to do the job for a while and then dislodge them nearer to the election in favour of someone trained up in the background by Mandleson.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I have just put a tenner on Yvette Cooper
What odds did they give her?
andysays
Love and solidarity
"Aspiration, aspiration, aspiration..."
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
andysays
Love and solidarity
Funnily enough, that's exactly what I was thinking
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
If Corbyn were leader, I might consider becoming a member of the party again, purely on the basis of providing some ballast against the Labour right.
It will be between her and Burnham and I think that Burnham will feel pressured to distance himself from Corbyn which will reduce the effects of transfers from Corbyn to Burnham.
Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
Thereby leading to a Cooper win?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
The cretinous Iain Martin tells his followers that his numpty mates are going to launch a legal challenge. Good luck with that, pal.
If it alienates enough people yes - I think it's too early to tell yet. The unions will mostly back Burnham but that matters a lot less now.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
need to get on a diet pal
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
11/4 but now in to 9/4
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Landin considers Corbyn's chances under Derer's OMOV...
http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2015/06/17/conrad-landin/jeremy4leader/
http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2015/06/17/conrad-landin/jeremy4leader/
comrade spurski
Well-Known Member
So taxing the rich more instead of paying the poor more is so left wing it's a fantasy?
Refusing to bail out incompetent, greedy bankers while protecting the pension rights off millions of low paid workers is now so left wing it is a fantasy?
Refusing to bomb several countries back into the stone age to satisfy the blood lust of a few nutters and the greed of corporations who wanted to get their hands on the resources in those countries is so left wing its a fantasy?
Your reality is making life a misery for millions of us and is killing millions around the world ... and you continuously defend the indefensible by claiming we are North london types and not living in the real world...you sound like every politician on question time...it matters not which party they are in cos they are all ignorant and arrogant while dismissing our concerns and problems.
I earn £9.15 per hour...I have had constant low or no pay rises over the last 15 years...I teach children to read, write and how to do maths. I paid into my pension since 1994 and in 2009 (approx) they changed the rules so I now pay more in, get less out and will have to work an extra 6 years to get my full work pension, currently worth a massive £2,800 per year.
My partner has been made redundant and I was given a 4 year pay freeze (costing me around £3500 before tax over the 4 years...a missive amount as I only earn £12,000 per yr as a teaching assistant) by a labour council under the coalition...the same Labour council spent hundreds of thousands on the olympics, becoming a royal borough and hundreds of thousands more on increasing allowances for themselves and massive pay hikes on their chief officers)...so do not accuse me of not understanding life under the coalition.
Labour was supposed to defend us against the worst excesses of the bosses greed. Now they use us to get elected only to expose us to the excesses that they should be stopping.
You don't care or understand what life is like for millions of working people who suffered under the Tories, New Labour and the Coalition.
You preach that Labour cuts are necessary, that people like me are living in a fantasy world cos we challenge your narrative.
You accuse us of being part of a part of the chattering North London class because we disagree with you (like any of those middle class lefties live on the London Living Wage if they are as lucky as me or the National Minimum Wage if they are unlucky).
You blithely dismiss any and every alternative view with a hate filled, patronising condescension and wonder why people are rude to you on here.
You sound like every labour politician I see and hear...they want power for powers sake and do not give a shit about who they tread on or destroy to get and remain there.
I am 48 years old, have worked for the past 30 years, have been made redundant 3 times, my partner has been made redundant, my kids want to go to university so we will have to remortgage our house to help them pay their rent and live so instead of my mortgage ending when I am 52 yrs old I will probably be 64...and I can not retire on a full pension until I am at least 65 yrs old.
I live in se london...I bought a house in 1994 (during the housing slump) cos it was cheaper than renting...it cost 54k...now houses in our street go for 300k ... I have lived here all my life, my kids will not be able to buy or rent here cos it is so fucking expensive now...this is not some middle class suburbia...it is a solid working class area which always has a labour council and MP...and Labour was set up to care for people like us.
I hate everything that Labour is...because they me hate me and mine and have done fuck all except make my life harder.
I am angry ... god know how those not as lucky as we are (the unemployed, the sick, minimum waged etc.) feel.
Sorry for boring others stupid with this post
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
needed saying- I doubt you'll get an answer from the arrogant tosser though
comrade spurski
Well-Known Member
Thank you...I find AC14 and his ilks views so worrying for my children's futures (and every kid i work with).
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
It is a complete misrepresentation of mildly social democratic politics. Things that neatly fitted into the post-war consensus even under Thatcher are now intentionally being portrayed as radical. This constant drip of negative messages to the majority, by a minority with interests to protect is malicious yet undeniably effective. The battle for control of the political narrative has been lost and it is Labour's fault more than anyone else's. They are potentially the biggest opposition voice to the war being waged on the vulnerable, but they're too scared to stand up for it. Worse than the Tories in some ways (some) just for their sheer cowardice.
Comrade Spurski thank you for your well directed post. This is why do many of us gave up on the so-called Labour Party. It deserted its post in a time of war.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
So why not pay £3 a vote for him?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Why would I want to put money into the coffers of a party whose current leadership cadre is overwhelmingly of the Blairite right?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I'd feel gutted if I paid 3 quid and Cooper, Burnham or Kendall won.
It's too long to reply to this morning, and I empathise with a lot of what you say. However, the plural of anecdote is not data, and we have to govern for all.
There are also a number of assertions you make which are not backed up - more driven by emotion. It's not that emotion isn't necessary or commendable, just that it doesn't make good policy.
I will come back to it in good time.
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