Labour leadership

[MarkyMarrk]

who calls them Corbynistas? Pricks like you

This is the nature of the discussion when you challenge those who are either not members, or have been members 5 minutes.
It's like an area that has returned Labour MPs since before the war being told it no longer represents Labour values.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

My CLP has seen a fourfold membership increase since his election, so most of us joined because we felt invigorated by his campaign. But there isn't any talk of kicking out 'moderates', taking over the CLP or any of that nonsense. We are all just focused on working out ways to oppose the Tory-Lib Dem domination in this area. Obviously it may be different elsewhere!

It definitely varies.

 

[killer b]

The whole red tory / tory-lite thing people come out with is fucking tedious (and a tactical mistake), but it's blown out of all proportion by the people it's aimed at. Are you imagining the right wing of the party will stop at anything other than the end of Corbyn? That if the vocal left of the party were a bit more polite, they'd quieten down and knuckle under? If so, you're very much mistaken.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

The whole red tory / tory-lite thing people come out with is fucking tedious (and a tactical mistake), but it's blown out of all proportion by the people it's aimed at. Are you imagining the right wing of the party will stop at anything other than the end of Corbyn? That if the vocal left of the party were a bit more polite, they'd quieten down and knuckle under? If so, you're very much mistaken.

I'm not sure what you're saying here but:

1. Some people who have just joined the party do want to deselect people they call 'Tories'. "Why don't you just join the Tories" is a common refrain.
2. Some people who have just joined the party have made some branch meetings unbearable.
3. There is an entitlement by some people (who either are or recently were in the far-left) that means they think the party is theirs.
4. Many of the above are not the people who are travelling to campaign or canvass. The existing members seem to be the only ones willing to do so.

Where the above isn't happening, some of the moderates are responding in an over-the-top manner, I agree. And I agree it's not happening everywhere.
I also welcome those who have joined and swelled the numbers and really want to debate.

 

[killer b]

You aren't agreeing with me. I think the conflict is being driven by the right wing of the party (and their friends in the media) in order to destabilise and dethrone Corbyn.

 

[belboid]

This is the nature of the discussion when you challenge those who are either not members, or have been members 5 minutes.
It's like an area that has returned Labour MPs since before the war being told it no longer represents Labour values.

you are a master of the non-sequitur

 

[MarkyMarrk]

You aren't agreeing with me. I think the conflict is being driven by the right wing of the party (and their friends in the media) in order to destabilise and dethrone Corbyn.

Corbynistas are managing that on their own.

 

[killer b]

There's some narky dickheads, but so what? You show me a group of more than three people, I'll show you at least one narky dickhead. They're everywhere.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

I do agree that those who remain won't stop arguing until Corbyn has gone. However, many of them are leaving. This is why I suspect Labour may be out of power for a long, long time.

If he goes, it'll just be another of the far left that gets elected - though it might be a more intelligent one with fewer dodgy associations.

 

[DotCommunist]

possibly best to wait till may before consulting the crystal balls though eh.

 

[treelover]

This is the kind of attitude that is positive. If Corbynistas were like this, they wouldn't be called Corbynistas, and the Labour Party could get on with attacking the Tories.

In a statement to his local paper, Anderson said Labour had to stop “fighting each other” and focus on attacking the Tories.

It’s vital that we move on from the internal navel gazing and personality clashes and started taking the fight to this most vicious of governments.

They are hammering the poor, decimating our councils and the vital services they provide, attacking our democracy through the Trade Union Bill and pushing on with plans to redraw constituency boundaries with the aim of giving themselves a big advantage in future elections."

This really great guy, fought on lots of issues, including asbestos, former miner/carer has just been made a whip, I agree with him, Take on the Tories, felt sick seeing them bray during the Housing Bill debate/PMQ's..

 

[treelover]

I'm not sure what you're saying here but:

1. Some people who have just joined the party do want to deselect people they call 'Tories'. "Why don't you just join the Tories" is a common refrain.
2. Some people who have just joined the party have made some branch meetings unbearable.
3. There is an entitlement by some people (who either are or recently were in the far-left) that means they think the party is theirs.
4. Many of the above are not the people who are travelling to campaign or canvass. The existing members seem to be the only ones willing to do so.

Where the above isn't happening, some of the moderates are responding in an over-the-top manner, I agree. And I agree it's not happening everywhere.
I also welcome those who have joined and swelled the numbers and really want to debate.

The Guardian surveys seem to bear this out, for many its online only

 

[kebabking]

possibly best to wait till may before consulting the crystal balls though eh.

i doubt May will give good indications....

personally, i think it will be like the last electoral cycle - i think that people will vote Labour in council and EU elections, as well as by-elections, i think people will say that they like Corbyn and his economic policies (i do..), and i think that it will all look a bit tight going into election day. on the day however it will be different, with Labour getting hammered in the potential swing seats in the Midlands and South that it needs to win to get anywhere near forming a government, even a coalition with the SNP. Corbyn excites some, but broadly they are those within seats that are already Labour/SNP seats, the people he really turns off are in seats he needs to take from the tories.

that does not mean he needs to (can?) take votes from the tories, but it does mean that where he picks up votes in those potential swing seats from those who either don't vote Labour, or just don't vote, he's also mobilising those who are deeply hostile to him to vote when otherwise they might not, or to vote tory when they might otherwise have voted UKIP.

much will depend on so many variables like the EU referendum, the tory leadership, the economy, and yes - to what degree the Labour party tears itself apart. ask Micheal Foot or Neil Kinnock about elections that should otherwise have been theirs for the taking..

 

[redsquirrel]

The Guardian surveys seem to bear this out, for many its online only

No it doesn't, the piece about the survey actually says that (1) is a very small number of people, doesn't comment on (2) and (3) at all and says there's a mixed picture on (4).

 

[nino_savatte]

I thought I had you down as a Corbyn fan, treelover ?

I have treelover down as a member of the miserablist tendency.

 

[Pickman's model]

i'll tell you a little secret. christ's second coming will happen before labour turn socialist.

a sentiment to which i still subscribe

 

[Pickman's model]

I have treelover down as a member of the miserablist tendency.

auld treelover a tory, or would be if they'd only stop being nasty to people on benefits.