Labour leadership

[ItWillNeverWork]

Jeremy Corbyn critics target 100,000 new moderate members in long-term strategy to oust leader

The latest whispers from 'unnamed sources' say they've got a plan. They're going to recruit 100,000 new 'moderate' members.

I can see why they're not putting their name to that one tbh.

ENTRYISM! ENTRYISM!

 

[gosub]

ENTRYISM! ENTRYISM!

what database do you reckon they have got hold of? 100,000 thats more than Mr Bliar's xmas card list

 

[ViolentPanda]

What the fuck is moderate about being a war mongering neoliberal elite serving cunt?

It's the Orwellian name the cunts have given themselves. My own MP - a leading "moderate" who ducked out of the leadership contest - is in fact about as moderate as an incendiary shell. He announced his intention to vote for action in Syria a full week before the parliamentary debate, and regards any ideas about addressing neoliberalism as beyond the pale, the fucking Blairite robot.

 

[DotCommunist]

probably one of the maquis and all

 

[ViolentPanda]

what database do you reckon they have got hold of? 100,000 thats more than Mr Bliar's xmas card list

It's fantasy, unless they - due to some seriously delusory thinking - believe they can somehow "capture" the Lib-Dem vote in the lost Lib-Dem seats. As I said above, Blair was able to draw 250,000-300,000 to Labour (over 3 years,after which the numbers started going down) almost entirely because people were dog-sick of the Tories, and would have joined the MRL Party if Sutch had offered a cohesive vision for them to rally behind. The Maquis/moderates are kidding themselves (and the membership figures support my view) if they think that "neoliberalism with a smiley face"/ameliorationism won anyone except the likes of Picarda over.

 

[Libertad]

The Maquis soon...

 

[ViolentPanda]

probably one of the maquis and all

Yup, Chooks is a leading Brutus manque, and likes to imagine himself as a plucky resistance fighter.
Of course, "plucky resistance fighters" don't usually have to volume of corporate and Establishment support that Ummuna does.

 

[treelover]

Labour donor backs Jeremy Corbyn's anti-austerity agenda

One of Labour's biggest donors today warned the party's moderate wing to "wake up" to the fact that continuing to promise austerity-lite was the "road to unelectability."

JML chairman John Mills, who is normally associated with the Blairite wing of the Labour party, said the anti-austerity policies being pursued by Jeremy Corbyn "made a lot of sense" and could be popular with the public in 2020.

Labour donor backs Jeremy Corbyn's anti-austerity agenda

Rather strange this, I'm sure Mills said he would no longer fund the LP, maybe JC is appealing to powerful peoples better natures, one in the eye for the 'moderates' though.

 

[J Ed]

Corbyn urges Labour councils not to set illegal budgets | LabourList

 

[agricola]

Rather strange this, I'm sure Mills said he would no longer fund the LP, maybe JC is appealing to powerful peoples better natures, one in the eye for the 'moderates' though.

He did make one superb point, which McDonnell really should steal off him:

Mills also expressed limited support for Corbyn's plans to implement so-called "people's quantative easing". He said it was sensible to borrow for investment in capital projects, but warned against any wider application, saying that it was not a "magic trick" that could be relied upon to re-inflate the economy.

Because they were hopelessly compromised pre-2015 Labour were never able to make anything out of the nonsense that was (and is) PFI costing vastly more than normal government borrowing; but now that Balls has been booted out and the Maquis are furtively running from dinner party to dinner party, McDonnell should waste no time in attacking PFI each and every time he is at the despatch box / in front of a microphone. It is the easiest way to batter Osborne, and the only people it will affect in Labour are people who already want to knife him in the back.

What is more, it is a point that is unarguable - even when Brown was doing it the Treasury had to seriously massage the figures to even get to the point where it looked like it might cost a similar amount to "normal" government borrowing, but since 2010 the amount of money that we have been signed up to waste is in the tens of billions. It is also an issue that infects almost everything - transport, the NHS, the military etc.

 

[treelover]

Labour may propose new Trident policy by Easter, Livingstone says - Politics live
Labour may propose new Trident policy by Easter, Livingstone says - Politics live

Well looks like Corbyn and his obsessions will mean the Labour Party is now going to have an unproductive and divisive argument about Trident, something most of the public don't concern themselves with. This at a time when milllions are using foodbanks, people committing suicide, zero hours, end of social housing coming into view, I am losing patience with Team Corbyn. They also seem to have gone quiet on Social Security issues, despite yet another draconian Welfare Bill going though Parliament

 

[Orang Utan]

I thought I had you down as a Corbyn fan, treelover ?

 

[DotCommunist]

Labour may propose new Trident policy by Easter, Livingstone says - Politics live
Labour may propose new Trident policy by Easter, Livingstone says - Politics live

Well looks like Corbyn and his obsessions will mean the Labour Party is now going to have an unproductive and divisive argument about Trident, something most of the public don't concern themselves with. This at a time when milllions are using foodbanks, people committing suicide, zero hours, end of social housing coming into view, I am losing patience with Team Corbyn. They also seem to have gone quiet on Social Security issues, despite yet another draconian Welfare Bill going though Parliament

have you seen how much it'd cost to replace trident? thats not peanuts, that insane amounts. IF that cash was free for other puropses, all hundreds of billions of it?

 

[treelover]

I thought I had you down as a Corbyn fan, treelover ?

I was enthused by the rallies, the dynamism, etc, but I have alwaays had concerns about J/C, his foreign policy, etc, same with Seaumas Milne, his Communications Director.

 

[treelover]

have you seen how much it'd cost to replace trident? thats not peanuts, that insane amounts. IF that cash was free for other puropses, all hundreds of billions of it?

But, its not going to be abolished, is it?, even if it was, the politician would still in their view, want an expensive independent deterrent(though of course it is anything but.) I just want Team Corbyn to concentrate on the basics.

 

[treelover]

But Emma Burnell at LabourList says that, despite being an unilateralist, she thinks it is a mistake for the party to focus on this issue.

Renewal of Trident is likely to come before Parliament in a vote this summer – before our next conference. The recent reshuffle has been designed to make it easier for Labour to take an anti-renewal stance. However, our policy – as set by members at conference and supported by our major unions – is to support renewal.

So once again we are set to have a long and bruising internal fight. The question you have to then ask, is what difference will such a fight make to the reality of the situation? The answer I’m afraid is absolutely none.

The Tories – and enough of those Labour MPs who feel differently from me – will vote to renew Trident. Labour MPs will be within their rights to do so under our current policy and that can’t be changed under our rules so if the Leadership try to force a whip it will be within the rights of MPs to vote against it. I imagine they will also mention the times the Leader himself voted against a Labour whip. the unions will be loud in their opposition to the leadership, and we will spend many, many months fighting among ourselves to ultimately no end. Trident will be renewed and we will have spent our time fighting among ourselves.

 

[Wilf]

But, its not going to be abolished, is it?, even if it was, the politician would still in their view, want an expensive independent deterrent(though of course it is anything but.) I just want Team Corbyn to concentrate on the basics.

I was never a Corbynista, though the sight of all that energy from his campaign shrinking down to Westminster plots and tedious reshuffles is still depressing. I agree that it's all a lost opportunity. However I really don't follow your logic. Getting a clear line on getting rid of trident seems to me like a very sensible thing, even if it's unlikely to be achieved. Or to put it another way, how can you concentrate on the 'basics' if you are still committed to spending billions on nukes?

 

[agricola]

What John Mann did next.

 

[treelover]

Its just stirring, isn't it? not going to happen.

 

[agricola]

But, its not going to be abolished, is it?, even if it was, the politician would still in their view, want an expensive independent deterrent(though of course it is anything but.) I just want Team Corbyn to concentrate on the basics.

The thing is though that replacing Trident is one of the basics. For what replacing Trident will probably end up costing you could have another carrier, its air wing, the supporting vessels, an armoured division (edit: or double the size of the RTR), another couple of squadrons of Typhoons and hire the matelots, squaddies and RAF for all of them.

 

[mk12]

I was enthused by the rallies, the dynamism, etc, but I have alwaays had concerns about J/C, his foreign policy, etc, same with Seaumas Milne, his Communications Director.

I'm with you. I voted for him but I dont agree with all of his foreign policy views. I am also a little uncomfortable with the internal focus of many of his supporters - they seem more concerned with fighting the blairites than the tories. (Of course the 'moderates' aren't blameless).

 

[killer b]

As if the blairites have given them any choice on whether to fight.

 

[mk12]

It's not just defensive though, is it? Some people seem to enjoy the internal strife that makes Labour look weak and disunited (this goes for both extreme wings).

 

[belboid]

The struggle against Toryism begins with the struggle against Blairism

 

[mk12]

Yeah, that's the mentality I'm criticising. ^^^

 

[belboid]

Have you not noticed how the Blairites are refusing to play ball?

 

[MarkyMarrk]

I'm with you. I voted for him but I dont agree with all of his foreign policy views. I am also a little uncomfortable with the internal focus of many of his supporters - they seem more concerned with fighting the blairites than the tories. (Of course the 'moderates' aren't blameless).

This is the kind of attitude that is positive. If Corbynistas were like this, they wouldn't be called Corbynistas, and the Labour Party could get on with attacking the Tories.

 

[mk12]

Yes, a small minority are resisting Corbyn's leadership. Which pisses me off. But some would be intent on kicking out Blairites even if they weren't resisting. Rather than acknowledging that the LP is a broad church and always had been.

 

[mk12]

This is the kind of attitude that is positive. If Corbynistas were like this, they wouldn't be called Corbynistas, and the Labour Party could get on with attacking the Tories.

My CLP has seen a fourfold membership increase since his election, so most of us joined because we felt invigorated by his campaign. But there isn't any talk of kicking out 'moderates', taking over the CLP or any of that nonsense. We are all just focused on working out ways to oppose the Tory-Lib Dem domination in this area. Obviously it may be different elsewhere!

 

[belboid]

This is the kind of attitude that is positive. If Corbynistas were like this, they wouldn't be called Corbynistas, and the Labour Party could get on with attacking the Tories.

who calls them Corbynistas? Pricks like you