Labour leadership

[ViolentPanda]

Ahh. Well he certainly comes across as slimy enough, but whether or not he is that wily is debatable.

Oh, he's a sharp schemer, right enough. He's not one of Mandelson's favourite noobs for nothing.

 

[DotCommunist]

he's an ex squaddie, the thick cunts will drop their knickers within minutes of him taking the leadership.

its hard to believe they think the electorate are basically thick subhuman scum but again and again they act in a manner that indicates they do think that

I think Chuka saw the way the wind was blowing tbh. Hence, he's not damaged goods, in electoral terms, like Burnham et al.

I'd always suspected he has skelletons and got a bit shit up at how keen the press were to root through bins and doorstep distant relations

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

http://www.debretts.com/people/debretts-500/education/hon-dr-tristram-hunt-mp

A man of the people and a staunch socialist.

One of the things the Blairites seem to have started really hammering on recently is the democratic mandate the PLP apparently have. The fact that he's representing Stoke on Trent really shows true democracy at its finest doesn't it.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

dp

 

[butchersapron]

I think Chuka saw the way the wind was blowing tbh. Hence, he's not damaged goods, in electoral terms, like Burnham et al.

Whatever he had hanging over him hasn't gone away - unless he's found some way to turn it to his advantage.

 

[brogdale]

Whatever he had hanging over him hasn't gone away - unless he's found some way to turn it to his advantage.

Murdoch might have assured him that the bones (if they exist?) will remain in the cupboard?

 

[butchersapron]

Murdoch might have assured him that the bones (if they exist?) will remain in the cupboard?

Would you trust him? And there will be a whole chain of other people with their own interests you'd also have to trust.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The other option apart from doing it constitutionally is to do what these people sound like they are (doing and this is the danger of an unelecetd group of oxbridge bubble media types moving from issue or election to issue of election) which is go on strike or sabotage to the extent that they force him to resign. So get rid of them. Let the local parties run the campaigns again.

The problem there being that Corbyn is a social democrat, and therefore favours the re-empowerment of the CLPs through the medium of the party hierarchy, which means any change that allows local selection won't come quickly - at least not quickly enough to put the neoliberal front-benchers in fear of losing their mostly-safe seats.

 

[butchersapron]

The problem there being that Corbyn is a social democrat, and therefore favours the re-empowerment of the CLPs through the medium of the party hierarchy, which means any change that allows local selection won't come quickly - at least not quickly enough to put the neoliberal front-benchers in fear of losing their mostly-safe seats.

I'm talking about removing the party structures that pay these people to organise elections and so on rather than MPs. It's that professional little bubble of specialists that need gone, the MPs will largely fall into line.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This legal advice is encouraging. If the PLP acts now, and there's no left candidate on the ballot, we could end up with a proper leader and every chance that the new left joiners will fuck off in disgust before the opportunity for deselections comes round. It's a risk worth taking.

"We"? Thought you claimed to be a three quidder, not a member.

Or by "we", do you mean yourself and other shonky Blairite ratfuckers?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

The country.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm talking about removing the party structures that pay these people to organise elections and so on rather than MPs. It's that professional little bubble of specialists that need gone, the MPs will largely fall into line.

I could live with that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The country.

You don't speak for the country, Maurice. You barely speak for yourself.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What's a "proper leader" when it's at home? One that sucks up to Cameron? One that offers no alternative to the Tories or one that resolutely votes in favour of war?

Do it and you'll lose thousands of members overnight.

As long as it's the Corbyn Jugend, Maurice doesn't give a shit.

 

[DotCommunist]

its interesting that Maurice calls them 'new left joiners'. From what I've seen the cohort of the three pounds includes just as many ex members who have returned to the fold after leaving over iraq, blair or whichever straw of nulabourism policy it was that broke the camels back for that individual member. Positioning it like the party has been suddenly hijacked by malign forces. lol.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Cooper, Umunna, Jarvis - plenty of talent around. Jim McMahon perhaps. Or David Miliband, why not?

I do love the way you Blairites get a hard-on for Dan Jarvis. Pity that he's got fuck-all "hinterland" to him besides his fairly-sad life-tale and the fact that he was a Paras officer.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Excellent to see such visible support for the enabling act.

I'm sure that he doesn't see it that way - that he merely sees what he proposes as "setting democracy back on the right path".

 

[ViolentPanda]

So what? Next you'll be telling me the one with the best hairstyle will be the next leader.

That's Burnham fucked, then!

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Anti-militarism. Circumstances/Design have reduced UK military to a point that it doesn't really have the capacity to fight a war on its own. Ignore the UN resolution and the call to arms from our allies, and the military spend would have to rise significantly, if our allies can't rely on us, folly to think we can depend on them.

If that 'call to arms' was realistic enough to accept the truth that without ground forces ISIS won't be militarily beaten, then it would carry a bit more weight; but it doesn't. It contracts out that obligation to an imagined force of 70,000 fighters, who even if they exist in number are largely in the wrong paces and hugely divided.

Of course the 'call to arms' would still be fatally flawed by not having a clue what to do about the contradictory post ISIS objectives of the 'allies'.

So face up to it; there isn't a military solution without a commitment to ground forces and as has been graphical shown in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan, a military solution is no real human solution.

That is the context in which Corbyn's anti-militarism is to be welcomed; rather than taking Cameron et als. easy route of falling in step with the 'call to arms' he is making the hard choice of advocating building an enduring, stable, long term solution.

Louis MacNeice

p.s. If you are in the forces and would face deployment to the war in Syria, then please continue to use the phrase 'call to arms'; if not then you might want to dial down the rhetoric a little.

 

[quiquaquo]

its hard to believe they think the electorate are basically thick subhuman scum but again and again they act in a manner that indicates they do think that

I'd always suspected he has skelletons and got a bit shit up at how keen the press were to root through bins and doorstep distant relations

Nicely done

 

[Wilf]

I'm talking about removing the party structures that pay these people to organise elections and so on rather than MPs. It's that professional little bubble of specialists that need gone, the MPs will largely fall into line.

I suspect a lot of this is about Corbyn not having a clue that he might win till the campaign started, by which time it was too late. He's got a vaguely social democratic reply to austerity and vaguely hits the right notes around that. However there's no real sense of strategy for the game of power. He's running a party that he doesn't really control and even more so, a shadow cabinet he doesn't control. If anything the Blairites have been even more traitorous and willing to put themselves before any chance of winning the next election. Same time, with his mixture of free votes and devolved policy making, he's not really got a mechanism for destroying the fuckers.

I'm aware (I kind) of end up analysing this in the same terms of commentariat, in suggesting he isn't running a very effective 'project'. The bigger problem is that he isn't really building an alternative to westminster projects.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You want to purge the socialists from the Labour party? Maybe you need to leave instead and set up your own shitty third way party

Because both the third way and third parties have gone so well!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do you remember that Thatcher woman? Now seems an apposite time to point out that she wouldn't have got away with half the shit she did, had the left not been more interested in fighting among itself

You say this as if "the left" is (or has ever been) some sort of distinct homogeneous mass, or that this "left" would be able to form a united front at the drop of a hat.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They don't. You do, and your mates do, and Twitter does. You are not the electorate.

The fond delusion of the Blairite: That the electorate in all those safe Northern seats voted for the candidate, rather than for the party that the candidate represents.

 

[teqniq]

Yeah there seems to be a surfeit of delusion.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The allure of Dan Jarvis is irresistible to some.

Like flies to shite...

Corrected that for you.

 

[ViolentPanda]

he's an ex squaddie, the thick cunts will drop their knickers within minutes of him taking the leadership.

He's not an "ex-squaddie", he's a former mid-ranking member of the officer class. Squaddies are "other ranks", not legendarily-chinless administrator-types.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Anyway, the point is that the finest legal minds available have determined that, based on the precedent of a challenge against Kinnock, Corbyn needs PLP votes to stand against a challenge to him. So this thread has a good chance of getting very bitter, quite soon, while the hardcore left and anarchists snicker in glee at being proved right, and the small moderate contingent refrain manfully from too much gloating.

Interesting. A narrative where you place yourself as both "moderate" and "manful"when you're neither.

 

[killer b]

He's not an "ex-squaddie", he's a former mid-ranking member of the officer class. Squaddies are "other ranks", not legendarily-chinless administrator-types.

details, details. as long as there's pictures in existence of him in fatigues in a godforsaken desert somewhere, we're good to roll.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You actually mean it don't you. You are one sick fuck, probably the nastiest poster on U75.

Nope, he's just a common-or-garden cunt.