Labour leadership

[SpookyFrank]

The Blairites who say they need another Blairite to win the next election are probably right at this point, but only because they've essentially salted the Earth for any other kind of winning Labour Party.

And because they've filled the party up with careerist lickspittles.

 

[weltweit]

It is pretty simple. To be elected Labour have to represent a majority of voters. If traditional loyal labour voters (the ones that voted for them this time) don't represent a majority they have to reach out and also represent others.

 

[Lo Siento.]

It is pretty simple. To be elected Labour have to represent a majority of voters. If traditional loyal labour voters (the ones that voted for them this time) don't represent a majority they have to reach out and also represent others.

It really isn't this simple, is it?

 

[butchersapron]

It is pretty simple. To be elected Labour have to represent a majority of voters. If traditional loyal labour voters (the ones that voted for them this time) don't represent a majority they have to reach out and also represent others.

How many elections do you think have either required or resulted in a party gaining a majority of voters that then put them in power?

 

[frogwoman]

you (and anyone else) won't though.

What do you mean? Tbh you could be right. I dont hold a lot of hope for tusc etc either. i genuinely dont know where we go from here.

 

[hot air baboon]

It is pretty simple....

...just kidnap and brain-wash Nicola Sturgeon...

 

[andysays]

It is pretty simple. To be elected Labour have to represent a majority of voters. If traditional loyal labour voters (the ones that voted for them this time) don't represent a majority they have to reach out and also represent others.

The real issue is that plenty of "traditional loyal labour voters" have given up voting Labour and now vote for other parties (SNP, UKIP, Green, leftie parties with no chance of ever getting elected) or don't vote at all.

 

[Lo Siento.]

The real issue is that plenty of "traditional loyal labour voters" have given up voting Labour and now vote for other parties (SNP, UKIP, Green, leftie parties with no chance of ever getting elected) or don't vote at all.

And plenty of others didn't vote Labour in this election for contingent reasons which had nothing to do with how Left (or Right) their policies were.

 

[SpookyFrank]

To be elected Labour have to represent a majority of voters.

The tories have been elected on the strength of a 37% share of a 66% turnout. That's less than a quarter of the electorate, nowhere near a majority.

 

[killer b]

simple. uh-huh.

 

[weltweit]

The tories have been elected on the strength of a 37% share of a 66% turnout. That's less than a quarter of the electorate, nowhere near a majority.

My language was less than perfect, they need to get more votes than their opposition, which may mean representing more types of people than they traditionally do. Wasn't that the deal with New Labour, they poached voters from the tories as well as maintaining lots of core labour support?

 

[andysays]

My language was less than perfect, they need to get more votes than their opposition, which may mean representing more types of people than they traditionally do. Wasn't that the deal with New Labour, they poached voters from the tories as well as maintaining lots of core labour support?

Yes, to some extent that's what NL managed to do, but arguably their short-term success has led to their current failure, because they have since focussed entirely on what they think they need to do to try to retain those non-trad voters and as a result have neglected the interests of the traditional ones, many of whom have drifted away.

And because they haven't retained all the non-trad voters, they are now in the unenviable but totally predictable position of having lost far more voters than they've gained.

 

[andysays]

And plenty of others didn't vote Labour in this election for contingent reasons which had nothing to do with how Left (or Right) their policies were.

What do you mean by contingent reasons? Examples might be helpful.

 

[belboid]

The tories have been elected on the strength of a 37% share of a 66% turnout. That's less than a quarter of the electorate, nowhere near a majority.

and only 87% registered to vote at all, so they actually won on barely 20% of the electorate

 

[Lo Siento.]

What do you mean by contingent reasons? Examples might be helpful.

I mean reasons related to the particular circumstances in this election. For instance, the point in the economic cycle that the last two elections took place in.

 

[SpookyFrank]

and only 87% registered to vote at all, so they actually won on barely 20% of the electorate

Meaning Labour won the votes of rather less than 20% of the electorate. They clearly haven't got a majority of working class people voting for them, which as the quote unquote worker's party would be something you'd expect them to aim for.

Nobody in the party's upper echelons seems to have noticed this. It's all just hand wringing about how they've failed to win the votes of the upper middle class, a pretty small demographic compared to the ordinary working (and indeed non-working) people they've completely abandoned.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I mean reasons related to the particular circumstances in this election. For instance, the point in the economic cycle that the last two elections took place in.

This might be a very important factor. Give it another six months and it may be impossible for the tories to maintain even the illusion of an economic recovery, much less fight an election campaign based on the idea that they were solely responsible for it.

 

[agricola]

Yes, to some extent that's what NL managed to do, but arguably their short-term success has led to their current failure, because they have since focussed entirely on what they think they need to do to try to retain those non-trad voters and as a result have neglected the interests of the traditional ones, many of whom have drifted away.

And because they haven't retained all the non-trad voters, they are now in the unenviable but totally predictable position of having lost far more voters than they've gained.

TBH I think it would be very difficult to find that many voters of whatever kind whose interests weren't neglected by New Labour - even down here in sunny London, which had the best of the boom and the least of the recession, far more was done (in far less time, and definately at far less cost) by Livingstone to benefit far more people.

 

[youngian]

The one who's married to the teacher out of The Inbetweeners would at least give us a laugh if she wins, becomes PM and then Mr. Gilbert has to greet foreign dignitaries.

With Ed Miliband as Will McKenzie

 

[Lo Siento.]

This might be a very important factor. Give it another six months and it may be impossible for the tories to maintain even the illusion of an economic recovery, much less fight an election campaign based on the idea that they were solely responsible for it.

Yeah, or if they'd been fighting it prior to deflation setting in then Labour's "cost of living crisis"/"squeezed middle" would've had more bite with people in the Midlands and the South.

 

[youngian]

Both are/have been people who'd make Machiavelli proud.

No, Umunna is nowhere near that good at politics.

 

[Greebo]

No, Umunna is nowhere near that good at politics.

True, but he and Mandelson share the thing of all style and no substance. Mandy did it better though.

 

[youngian]

True, but he and Mandelson share the thing of all style and no substance. Mandy did it better though.

Not a always a fan of Mandelson's policies but he's bit too easy as a target. As an operator I'd rather have him in my tent pissing out. Nothing is low enough for the Tories to hang on to their sense of entitlement to wield power and they will not be removed with nerds and vicars organising your campaign strategy.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's a bit like being covered in cowshit, but proudly carrying a banner declaring that it came from the biggest, smelliest cow alive.

T'other thing is that being "blessed" by Mandelson may have the effect of re-igniting the rumours about Chuka's sexuality that he's spent years trying to gainsay. Some of the local pentecostal churches can be a bit unforgiving.

 

[Pickman's model]

T'other thing is that being "blessed" by Mandelson may have the effect of re-igniting the rumours about Chuka's sexuality that he's spent years trying to gainsay. Some of the local pentecostal churches can be a bit unforgiving.

are you referring to the bestiality rumours which i have just invented?

 

[killer b]

T'other thing is that being "blessed" by Mandelson may have the effect of re-igniting the rumours about Chuka's sexuality that he's spent years trying to gainsay.

why?

 

[YouSir]

are you referring to the bestiality rumours which i have just invented?

It's not the dolphins is it? An appeal to the Left?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The real issue is that plenty of "traditional loyal labour voters" have given up voting Labour and now vote for other parties (SNP, UKIP, Green, leftie parties with no chance of ever getting elected) or don't vote at all.

Yep. Labour has been shitting on its' core vote since around 1987, when Pillock & Co first got the idea to not only move centre-ward, but to cultivate the urban middle classes, too.

 

[ViolentPanda]

why?

Because Mandelson is "out", and Chuka knows that round here some people would rather vote for Beelzebub or an undead Thatcher, than a homosexual, and I'm not just talking about the BME communities.

 

[ViolentPanda]

are you referring to the bestiality rumours which i have just invented?

Them too.
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!