Labour leadership
- Thread starter oryx
- Start date
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
No more tiny questions. Do some proper posting.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
You're right. Thanks for the reminder.
You are asking me to produce a full manifesto in about 30 minutes when most of the candidates haven't produced anything remotely as detailed, despite them being professional politicians...?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the party politics of this undemocratic system affects the lives of people I love and my own life. Being as we have little agencey within a system such as stands, not being p'd up courtroom dons like yourself. Also, its better than football.
Ole
Well-Known Member
He's made it clear he won't leave NATO so you can write that one off the list.
Getting rid of Trident is in a sense popular with a majority of the public, but most people want a cheaper nuclear weapons system, not to unilaterally disarm, and Corbyn's position is actually nuclear disarmament.
That's the only currently unpopular policy of those you've listed. Nationalisation of the industries he has talked about: energy, utilities and rail is overwhelmingly popular. "Ramping up public spending" is not a meaningful phrase.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
On current form, Labour are unlikely to be elected in 2020 or 2025, given the less-than-sparkling panoply of talentless opportunists and careerists in the Parliamentary ranks. Neither Cooper, Burnham nor Kendall have sufficient talent and gravitas to be anything beyond caretakers, and the likes of Umunna, Leslie or even Miliband. D promise nothing new, just the same old carefully-triangulated "neoliberalism" that Blair and Brown offered.
Could Corbyn win an election? Probably not. Is it possible he could energise the electorate more successfully than his party currently has, or the Tories have? Probably. Personally, I see an energised electorate rediscovering old solidarities as having a lot more social value than merely winning an election.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Poking a hole in the neo liberal consensus? Getting the possibility of something a bit different to 'let's piss on the poor' on the agenda? Actually debating what the public actually supports , like nationalising the railways? Actually forming an opposition to the tories rather than actively supporting every fucking thing they do? To name a few. Not being a psychic I can't say for sure but these are best guesses.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
And yet you accuse others of being deluded.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's not so much about the party, as about the possible re-emergence of some semblance of broadly-held "left" values that frightens "the establishment" IMO. Their discourse (neoliberalism, while indoctrinating people away from socially-protective and productive institutions and legislation) has been dominant for 4 decades, but that dominance is contingent on a broad acceptance of the discourse as "the only game in town". Corbyn, however mildly, is reminding people that it isn't.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Which is why they haven't.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
There's a war criminal on some front pages today. He let banks run riot with the economy, mortgaged our public services to PFI spivs and wanted us all eye scanned and finger printed for a massive database. He led Labour to their first defeat in a generation.
The subject of his pontification: "Credibility".
What kind of "journalism" allows this to happen?
The subject of his pontification: "Credibility".
What kind of "journalism" allows this to happen?
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Yeah this is what I was trying to get at in my second response to numb nuts up there. It's somethin that resmbles left wing views and values. Having that in the media on a consisten basis if Corbyn wins is a good thing.
YouSir
Retired from Urban
More modern toss in your case.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Yeah no one really cares what you think. Keep supporting your low fat tories won't you? It really inspired people and worked so well in the last two elections didn't it?
gimesumtruf
pedant fodder
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Ok...explain to us how supporting a new labourite who believes in pretty much the same things and has pretty much the same policies, and exactly the same political ethos as the Tories can bring about change ?
Why is it change when the punter with the red rosette says and does the same stuff as the punter with the blue rosette ?
Jim Murphy used to come out with this stuff . Deluded ? He ended up doing a fair impression of hitlers last days in the bunker .
What you're talking about isn't modern politics . It's failed old hat from the late 1990s . A perceived wisdom that turned out to be a load of bollocks .
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Modern "democratic" politics in the UK require legitimation - that is, "Parliamentary democracy" requires people to validate the system by exercising their franchise. Whether one acts instrumentally or altruistically, the number of people whose circumstances are affected positively by the system continues to decrease. We're still expected to pay the same dues, but for ever-decreasing services.
Given that Corbyn, in his hesitant, social-democratic way, is helping to highlight the inequality of (and inequity in) the social compact, why wouldn't that produce a degree of change? Unless one believes that the world is mostly populated by fools who will be eternally complicit in their own shafting, then change isn't just likely, but is unavoidable.
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
Do you think if one of the 3 other candidates don't beat Corbyn in the leadership election that would make them more likely to win a general election ? If they can't carry the majority in their own party, how the fuck could they win a general election?
Whatever happens - Corbyn is going to do very well in the leadership election , possibly winning it on 1st preferences - of course this might lead to all sorts of dark art shenanigans in the run up to 2020 - what it does prove, is that the party needs to shift to the left .
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
something tells me Diamond was not reared in a housold that lacked
The field is admittedly tremendously poor - I think I've already said that on this thread.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
It was plainly a household that lacked a clip round the ear policy for asking incessant stupid questions .
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
400 years of complete and total imperial dominance suggests that 'losing honourably' is not a british disease. Winning viciously and through methods that make me sick? Yeah. That happened. Don't take it as an endorsment of such empire horrors, just pointing out that you are talking bollocks.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
thats exactly what I said as well
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