Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Labour & Anti-Semitism.

Anti-Semitic Tweets

From the Guardian's David Baddiel article.

Looking at the first few of those tweets, most of them seem from people on the right wing. Where's the evidence they were from people on the left?

This is what I've been asking you about since your first post and you've consistently ignored it - you're saying this is a left wing problem but it's a problem in society and most particularly on the right wing.

You're trivialising it by playing party politics. It seems you don't actually care about anti-semitism you just want to say yah-boo lefties you're anti-semites.
 
Looking at the first few of those tweets, most of them seem from people on the right wing. Where's the evidence they were from people on the left?

This is what I've been asking you about since your first post and you've consistently ignored it - you're saying this is a left wing problem but it's a problem in society and most particularly on the right wing.

You're trivialising it by playing party politics. It seems you don't actually care about anti-semitism you just want to say yah-boo lefties you're anti-semites.
and he can't even get that right :(
 
has anything of value happened in this discussion since Friday, or should I not bother?

From my perspective there was a bit of interesting stuff about Lenni Brenner, the writer on fascist currents in revisionist Zionism and similar matters, whose work Ken was citing (and it turns out ludicrously misrepresenting) in the course of his unfortunate contribution to the public discussion.
 
Or we could discuss allegations of labour party anti-semitism, if there's any evidence, what motivates the claims or the anti-semitism, what constitutes anti-semitism and why, how it developed and relates to the present day etc rather than waste the thread further on a wild goose chase consisting of competing statements and re-statements of entrenched positions with no real world impact.

... And Butchers made a brave attempt to get us back to the actual topic.
 
Norman Finkelstein adds his voice to those condemning the manufactured anti-Semitism 'controversy'.


*Did you create the controversial image that Naz Shah reposted?

I’m not adept enough with computers to compose any image. But I did post the map on my website in 2014. An email correspondent must have sent it. It was, and still is, funny. Were it not for the current political context, nobody would have noticed Shah’s reposting of it either. Otherwise, you’d have to be humourless. These sorts of jokes are a commonplace in the U.S. So, we have this joke: Why doesn’t Israel become the 51st state? Answer: Because then, it would only have two senators. As crazy as the discourse on Israel is in America, at least we still have a sense of humour. It’s inconceivable that any politician in the U.S. would be crucified for posting such a map.

Shah’s posting of that image has been presented as an endorsement by her of a ‘chilling “transportation” policy’, while John Mann MP has compared her to Eichmann.

Frankly, I find that obscene. It’s doubtful these Holocaust-mongers have a clue what the deportations were, or of the horrors that attended them. I remember my late mother describing her deportation. She was in the Warsaw Ghetto. The survivors of the Ghetto Uprising, about 30,000 Jews, were deported to Maijdanek concentration camp. They were herded into railroad cars. My mother was sitting in the railroad car next to a woman who had her child. And the woman – I know it will shock you – the woman suffocated her infant child to death in front of my mother. She suffocated her child, rather than take her to where they were going. That’s what it meant to be deported. To compare that to someone posting a light-hearted, innocuous cartoon making a little joke about how Israel is in thrall to the U.S., or vice versa…it’s sick. What are they doing? Don’t they have any respect for the dead? All these desiccated Labour apparatchiks, dragging the Nazi holocaust through the mud for the sake of their petty jostling for power and position. Have they no shame?

What about when people use Nazi analogies to criticise the policies of the State of Israel? Isn’t that also a political abuse of the Nazi holocaust?

It’s not a simple question. First, if you’re Jewish, the instinctive analogy to reach for, when it comes to hate or hunger, war or genocide, is the Nazi holocaust, because we see it as the ultimate horror. In my home growing up, whenever an incident involving racial discrimination or bigotry was in the news, my mother would compare it to her experience before or during the Nazi holocaust.

My mother had been enrolled in the Mathematics faculty of Warsaw University, I guess in 1937-38. Jews were forced to stand in a segregated section of the lecture hall, and the antisemites would physically attack them. (You might recall the scene in Julia, when Vanessa Redgrave loses her leg trying to defend Jews under assault in the university.) I remember once asking my mother, ‘How did you do in your studies?’ She replied, ‘What are you talking about? How could you study under those conditions?’.

When she saw the segregation of African-Americans, whether at a lunch counter or in the school system, that was, for her, like the prologue to the Nazi holocaust. Whereas many Jews now say, Never compare(Elie Wiesel’s refrain, ‘It’s bad, but it’s not The Holocaust’), my mother’s credo was, Always compare. She gladly and generously made the imaginative leap to those who were suffering, wrapping and shielding them in the embrace of her own suffering.

For my mother, the Nazi holocaust was a chapter in the long history of the horror of war. It was not itself a war – she was emphatic that it was an extermination, not a war – but it was a unique chapter within the war. So for her, war was the ultimate horror. When she saw Vietnamese being bombed during the Vietnam War, it was the Nazi holocaust. It was the bombing, the death, the horror, the terror, that she herself had passed through. When she saw the distended bellies of starving children in Biafra, it was also the Nazi holocaust, because she remembered her own pangs of hunger in the Warsaw Ghetto.

If you’re Jewish, it’s just normal that the Nazi holocaust is a ubiquitous, instinctual touchstone. Some Jews say this or that horror is not the Nazi holocaust, others say it is. But the reference point of the Nazi holocaust is a constant.

The American Jewish scholar behind Labour’s ‘antisemitism’ scandal breaks his silence
 
The problem is though that (especially under Corbyn) they don't have the means to create these stories, or to put them in the media, or have a friendly element in the opposing party that will make part of the running with the stories.

Take this anti-semitism row for example, which seems to have come as the result of CAAS (or someone else, though they were mentioned a couple of times) research into every (or at least every Muslim) Labour MP, PPC and councillor and which has been passed on to Guido and then into the papers. Its also been eagerly seized upon by the maquis as something to hit their leader with, even though all these people (with the exception of Livingstone) got into Labour (or rather got into positions of power within Labour) when they were in charge.

What Labour should try and remedy this research gap as soon as possible. I don't think that attacking the Tories for being racist is going to be that much of a success (for a start, its probably something that most people who would conceivably vote Labour would think anyway), but detailed and truthful research into their financial dealings and the potential cost to the taxpayer would be a better bet - assuming that they don't manage to get rid of Corbyn the next election is going to be fought on economic policy, the papers won't be able to block that much of it, and it would be helpful to demonstrate what they are actually up to.
Labour's inferiority complex is still there though, and that's something they really need to work on.
 
She fucking well did, cunt! ;)

I should probably admit right now that my granny who said that someone would try the patience of a fucking saint is a complete figment who I made up as a comedic device to juxtapose against the figures diamond has been accused of making up to populate his stories.

My real granny would never have said that, although she did use to say that just because someone else was behaving like a cunt was no excuse for me to do so.
 
I should probably admit right now that my granny who said that someone would try the patience of a fucking saint is a complete figment who I made up as a comedic device to juxtapose against the figures diamond has been accused of making up to populate his stories.

My real granny would never have said that, although she did use to say that just because someone else was behaving like a cunt was no excuse for me to do so.
i bet she said that frequently. if she said it at all. which i doubt.
 
I can read your avatar. I realise this adds nothing to the discussion, but then I thought, if it's good enough for Diamond...

What does it say? Obviously it's the fact that it's traditional characters that's throwing me, just need clarification... :hmm:
 
SWP/Counterfire, it could be argued come close, along with the myriad of micro-sects.
Really? We all know you have a bee in your bonnet about the SWP, but where's the evidence that says they're over-run with anti-Semites?

The SWP was actually founded by a Jew (Yigael Gluckstein/Tony Cliff).
 
Last edited:
The problem is though that (especially under Corbyn) they don't have the means to create these stories, or to put them in the media, or have a friendly element in the opposing party that will make part of the running with the stories.

Take this anti-semitism row for example, which seems to have come as the result of CAAS (or someone else, though they were mentioned a couple of times) research into every (or at least every Muslim) Labour MP, PPC and councillor and which has been passed on to Guido and then into the papers. Its also been eagerly seized upon by the maquis as something to hit their leader with, even though all these people (with the exception of Livingstone) got into Labour (or rather got into positions of power within Labour) when they were in charge.

What Labour should try and remedy this research gap as soon as possible. I don't think that attacking the Tories for being racist is going to be that much of a success (for a start, its probably something that most people who would conceivably vote Labour would think anyway), but detailed and truthful research into their financial dealings and the potential cost to the taxpayer would be a better bet - assuming that they don't manage to get rid of Corbyn the next election is going to be fought on economic policy, the papers won't be able to block that much of it, and it would be helpful to demonstrate what they are actually up to.

What's CAAS? Tried a google.
 
The stuff they have trawled up from Labour members has been pretty mild in the scheme of things, I'm surprised worse hasn't been dug out, particularly from 2014 when Gaza was being crushed and people were fucking angry about it. Maybe they are holding back on some worse stuff? I'd kind of expect there to be worse out there (in terms of hostility to Israel, which is what seems to be called 'anti-semitic' at the moment). Not defending what's been said, just that it seems tame relative to the hysteria generated.
 
The stuff they have trawled up from Labour members has been pretty mild in the scheme of things, I'm surprised worse hasn't been dug out, particularly from 2014 when Gaza was being crushed and people were fucking angry about it. Maybe they are holding back on some worse stuff? I'd kind of expect there to be worse out there (in terms of hostility to Israel, which is what seems to be called 'anti-semitic' at the moment). Not defending what's been said, just that it seems tame relative to the hysteria generated.
This. I'd certainly expect more to have been unearthed by the press or right wing labour mps and their researchers. You can imagine the fevered searching and attempts to get onto the twitter feeds /facebook pages of imagined likely suspects. That there hasn't been much is, to be honest, something of a surprise. I'm hardly going to defend anti-Semitism, but you'd have expected more real time anger amid the bombing of gaza or at other flashpoints. In some ways it's a measure of how 'professionalised' and spun prospective labour mps and councillors have become. Again, I'm not suggesting there should have been a natural tendency to come out with anti-Semitic bile at those points, but that careerism probably won out over anger.
 
Looking at the first few of those tweets, most of them seem from people on the right wing. Where's the evidence they were from people on the left?

This is what I've been asking you about since your first post and you've consistently ignored it - you're saying this is a left wing problem but it's a problem in society and most particularly on the right wing.

You're trivialising it by playing party politics. It seems you don't actually care about anti-semitism you just want to say yah-boo lefties you're anti-semites.
He's a fucking jew hating cunt. All jews are worth to this prick are toys to be played with. to settle his petty fucking scores in his poxy political party. thats what a jew is worth to him, a fucking toy. you anti-semitic jew hating cunt. wanders around calling jews `yids` as well...pussy internet wanker.
 
He's a fucking jew hating cunt. All jews are worth to this prick are toys to be played with. to settle his petty fucking scores in his poxy political party. thats what a jew is worth to him, a fucking toy. you anti-semitic jew hating cunt. wanders around calling jews `yids` as well...pussy internet wanker.
What are you doing with jews in your post do you reckon? Tiny bit of hypocrisy here maybe, can you see where i'm coming from?
Shame this whole thread got so derailed by another boring round of Diamond-baiting.
 
Really? We all know you have a bee in your bonnet about the SWP, but where's the evidence that says they're over-run with anti-Semites?

The SWP was actually founded by a Jew (Yigael Gluckstein/Tony Cliff).


FFs, what about Weyman Bennet reportedly saying in Hyde Park, "why don't the Jews go back to New York or wherever", it was even discussed on here and in depth.

Google it, but be aware many of the links are from anti-jihadi sites, strangely not many left ones reported on it.
 
Shame he's an anti-semitic cunt isn't it. Fucking bowls about making up shit, calling jews `yids` (claiming jews call each other `yids`, fuck off cunt on the wind-up), playing little games coz he hates Corbyn or whoever it is in labour he hates. and he gets called out. when you manipulate anti-semitism for your own poxy gain, it's anti-semitic. i dont give a fuck about labour, so no, no hypocrisy from me.

having said that the little piss stain isn't worth getting annoyed about.
 
My real granny would never have said that, although she did use to say that just because someone else was behaving like a cunt was no excuse for me to do so.

You obviously never had to listen to her tirades when she'd misplaced her false gnashers!
 
FFs, what about Weyman Bennet reportedly saying in Hyde Park, "why don't the Jews go back to New York or wherever", it was even discussed on here and in depth.

Google it, but be aware many of the links are from anti-jihadi sites, strangely not many left ones reported on it.

feck it , yr right, that deffo constitutes 'over run by anti semites'
 
FFs, what about Weyman Bennet reportedly saying in Hyde Park, "why don't the Jews go back to New York or wherever", it was even discussed on here and in depth.

Google it, but be aware many of the links are from anti-jihadi sites, strangely not many left ones reported on it.
That claim - from a (now ex) member of the CPGB referred to Israeli's, not 'jews'. Slightly different. If true (and I would never take anything from the CPGB without another source to support it) it's crude, crass, and wrong, but hardly an example of the left being 'over run'
 
Back
Top Bottom