Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[J Ed]

Livingstone!

And Corbyn by association.

And there's Naz Khan also.

Aren't they the politicians who are leading the charge on this issue?

Or maybe I'm completely misreading the runes...

[we could add Diane Abott too btw]

Do they all post on urban75?

 

[Diamond]

Increasingly powerful in comparison to what, though?

As for where it comes from, while I've encountered some anti-Semitism on the left, it's almost always been from Swappies, and usually from ones who haven't understood the distinction between the state of Israel's policies and the personal ideologies of individual Jews. It's not something I've seen in the Labour Party, and those I know who are members of Momentum are mostly old school anti-fascists.

The anti-Semitism I've experienced, has always come from the right. Everything from verbal abuse to violence.

I'm not saying that doesn't exist on the right at all. It is almost certainly worse there.

 

[redsquirrel]

Apparently the expert witness in the most important defamation trial in this jurisdiction on Holocaust Denial was either not qualified or not instructed appropriately.

How is that a defence of anti-semitism? (Leaving aside whether or not it's an accurate account of people's posts)

And I presume you mean Naz Shah not Naz Khan

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Hitler nice chap until "he went mad"

er who on here has defended that? All I've seen is a string of people roundly condemning it.

 

[Pickman's model]

How about there is an increasingly powerful undercurrent of antisemitism in the UK left-wing movement, defended, awkwardly, but relentlessly by its members, as evidenced here.

That's a pretty straightforward opinion, no?

Hitler nice chap until "he went mad"

and that's your evidence for livingstone defending a powerful undercurrent of antisemitism in the uk left-wing movement? you'd be laughed out of court.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Hitler nice chap until "he went mad"

Could you provide a link to where KL said Hitler was a nice chap?

 

[teqniq]

Livingstone's complete fuckwittery aside Corbyn's biggest problem would seem to be the Blairites who seem to be happy to cause all kinds of mayhem based on 'if we can't have the toys then nobody can'.

 

[butchersapron]

How is that a defence of anti-semitism? (Leaving aside whether or not it's an accurate account of people's posts)

And I presume you mean Naz Shah not Naz Khan

They all look the same these anti Semites.

 

[Spymaster]

Hitler nice chap until "he went mad"

Not what was said at all.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Setting aside the misrepresentation of Livingstone, who here has defended what he actually said (which was fuckwitted enough without need for embellishment)?

 

[treelover]

OK, let's ignore everything that's actually been said and assume that is entirely true and not a misrepresentation. The question remains,
*who* has been defending this undercurrent of anti-Semitism on the British left?

SWP/Counterfire, it could be argued come close, along with the myriad of micro-sects.

 

[killer b]

has anything of value happened in this discussion since Friday, or should I not bother?

 

[Diamond]

Anti-Semitic Tweets

From the Guardian's David Baddiel article.

 

[redsquirrel]

Sorry what is that supposed to show? That there are anti-semitic wankers in world, no shit.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Anti-Semitic Tweets

From the Guardian's David Baddiel article.

What does that have to do with people on this thread?

Answer, nothing.

You've just thrown that in because you have no evidence to back up your accusations of posters here. You're hoping people read it, get distracted and don't notice you squirming.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hitler nice chap until "he went mad"

You're implying that Livingstone represented Hitler as a nice chap, by drawing an inference from Livingstone's (to paraphrase) "was a Zionist until he went mad".

The drawing of such inference is ignorant and partisan, on the basis of you drawing it not based on the text and context, but on what you wish to have happened.

 

[Pickman's model]

Anti-Semitic Tweets

From the Guardian's David Baddiel article.

you said:

How about there is an increasingly powerful undercurrent of antisemitism in the UK left-wing movement, defended, awkwardly, but relentlessly by its members, as evidenced here.

i have yet to see you produce an iota of evidence of anyone defending - you do, i hope, understand the term - this powerful undercurrent. put up: or shut up.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Who is this naz khan then?

Chaka's sister.

 

[killer b]

not looking promising.

 

[Pickman's model]

not looking promising.

yeh diamond has the anti-midas touch

 

[teqniq]

 

[killer b]

why do you let him?

 

[Pickman's model]

why do you let him?

perhaps you could expand on this.

 

[killer b]

Nah.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Setting aside the misrepresentation of Livingstone, who here has defended what he actually said (which was fuckwitted enough without need for embellishment)?

No-one.
There have, of course, been plenty of attempts to establish the context for what he said, and to parse it for accuracy, and to some (fuckwits, mainly) that would equate to "defending" Livingstone.

Thing is, most of us would do the same for anyone - take the words in context, as opposed to deliberately divorcing them from it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Nah.

in that case i am not sure what point you are trying to make.

 

[oryx]

Who is? Someone on here?

You haven't answered my question diamond.

Are you accusing anyone on this thread of holocaust denial, yes or no?

 

[ViolentPanda]

SWP/Counterfire, it could be argued come close, along with the myriad of micro-sects.

IF the (very limited) anti-Semitism I've seen from Trotlets was "organised" - i.e. policy - I might agree, but the few times I've seen it, it's been the ignorant conflation of Jews and Zionists. It doesn't "come close", because it's not a movement or part of a movement, just a manifestation of ignorance.

 

[Pickman's model]

You haven't answered my question diamond.

Are you accusing anyone on this thread of holocaust denial, yes or no?

you should put an @ immediately in front of diamond: @ diamond, without the space

 

[Pickman's model]

IF the (very limited) anti-Semitism I've seen from Trotlets was "organised" - i.e. policy - I might agree, but the few times I've seen it, it's been the ignorant conflation of Jews and Zionists. It doesn't "come close", because it's not a movement or part of a movement, just a manifestation of ignorance.

yes. and no one's been defending a movement or current or strain of people who are being anti-semitic, unless Diamond has some evidence which he'd like to share with us.