Labour & Anti-Semitism.

[redsquirrel]

Bimble is Jewish as she has said herself, I thought as i have repeatedly noted that in the anti-racism movement , that if someone from a minority is offended by what they perceived as racist comments, then they are indeed being discriminated against, Bimble has given over a number of threads examples where she has felt this,

Let's settle this. No more fucking waffle. Who are you alleging is guilty of anti-semitism and where's the evidence?

Either put up or do one. The one example of anti-semitsm that has been posted, you and bimble seem determined to ignore.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is why so many people are scared off politics on here. What has bimble said that deserves what she's getting back? Accusations of an agenda are bang out of order.

It is possible to point out why you think something is wrong without this shit.

 

[stethoscope]

Of course I'm sure that two such tireless opponents of anti-semitism as treelover and bimble would acknowledge that a anti-semitic statement such as

is vile and that the poster who made such a statement should be considered scum?

I seem to recall both treelover and bimble offering praise and likes to said 'U75 poster' for speaking 'uncomfortable truths' on the Cologne thread whilst attacking a number of posters here too who were trying to provide a more nuanced analysis of the situation and possible agenda's at work.

Said 'U75 poster' with a history of sexism, homophobia and flirtations with fascist rhetoric.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is why so many people are scared off politics on here. What has bimble said that deserves what she's getting back? Accusations of an agenda are bang out of order.

It is possible to point out why you think something is wrong without this shit.

& that's all there is to your agenda I suppose

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Isn't that a bit the point? The exaggerated anti-semitism charge is deflecting attention from what the tories are doing?

I'd say that's the point for some of those who are doing it.

Other, largely compatible, goals might include:

NuLabour right attacking Corbyn because their career prospects are more important than eg the NHS

Partisans of a murderous racist state using anti-semitism accusations to suppress critics and make criticism untenable within mainstream politics

Actual neo-fascists and third way types who want to see the old left compromised as pro-immigrant dupes

People who really do think that basing a massive witchunt on a few idiots on the left saying stupid stuff is worth the price of forwarding the agendas of the previously listed groups.

Etc.

Some, probably unintended, side effects of such a witchunt might also bear consideration ...

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Long read but Norman hits the nail;

The American Jewish scholar behind Labour’s ‘antisemitism’ scandal breaks his silence

 

[Pickman's model]

I seem to recall both treelover and bimble offering praise and likes to said 'U75 poster' for speaking 'uncomfortable truths' on the Cologne thread whilst attacking a number of posters here too who were trying to provide a more nuanced analysis of the situation and possible agenda's at work.

Said 'U75 poster' with a history of sexism, homophobia and flirtations with fascist rhetoric.

It's also interesting the number of times bimble has had to hold her hands up and admit she should leave threads eg the cologne one

 

[stethoscope]

Well with bimble, I'm going to put it perhaps down to inexperience of politics discussion and on forums, treelover has no such excuse though.

Both have a habit of throwing up any old links which they think 'says something' without any seeming critical analysis of the origin of those links or who's saying it (and what politic/agenda's are at work), and then backpeddling/accepting it was a bad example (in bimble's case) or abandoning the discussion and not returning to respond to points made (in treelover's case). Both also seem to take reactionary positions combined with making snide hints of accusations towards what posters are supposed to have said even when those posters haven't at all.

But seeming to support/take sides with 'U75 poster' on the Cologne thread whilst appearing to attack and smear decent posters trying to inject some nuanced political analysis in what was a clearly emotive and difficult thread was where I gave up with these two.

 

[cantsin]

never mind. I'm just smearing you all disingenuously etc, I'll bugger off & leave you lot to it.
You're surely right that there is no problem at all with antisemitism in nice progressive circles, my mistake, especially definitely not in UAF, cos that would be absurd.
Best to ignore the winging of people like whoever wrote this:
"Unite Against Fascism's weakness on antisemitism is both shocking and shameful. This is not, unfortunately, a story about goings-on in two marginal far left cults. Unite Against Fascism is the leading campaign against racism in the United Kingdom. It is supported by parliamentarians from all the major political parties, and by every significant trade union. It is Unite Against Fascism that sets the tone of the debate when it comes to opposing racism. They call the demonstrations and organise the conferences. It is to Unite Against Fascism that the national press turns, when racism rears its head..
This state of affairs is, quite frankly, terrifying. As others are warning here, there is every reason to believe that the defining themes of the present economic downturn will be xenophobic, anti-immigrant and racist politics. As conspiracy theories depicting Jews as controllers of the financial markets proliferate, antisemitism will undoubtedly also be part of that mix. Support for fascist parties tends to grow during crises, and we need a strong defence against that politics, with solidarity between and support from all parts of British society. However, with its sectarianism, silence on antisemitism and blindness to Islamist Jew-hatred, Unite Against Fascism just isn't up to the job.
David Toube: Unite Against Fascism may be the UK's leading campaign against the racist far right, yet its record on opposing antisemitism is dismal

you serious ?

David Toube - Metapedia
en.metapedia.org/wiki/David_Toube
9 Dec 2015 - David S. Toube (born 1969) is a Zionist Jewish propagandist in the United Kingdom who runs the blog Harry's Place at HurryUpHarry.org

edit : wasn't sure about the 'Jewish' part of 'Zionist jewish' tbh, so 2nd search :

Neil Clark: The Outing of "David T".

 

[cantsin]

Bimble is Jewish as she has said herself, I thought as i have repeatedly noted that in the anti-racism movement , that if someone from a minority is offended by what they perceived as racist comments, then they are indeed being discriminated against, Bimble has given over a number of threads examples where she has felt this, goodness knows if its any other minority group, UAF, HNH, twitter, etc, are all over it. Look at the implicit defence by some posters of that Rhodes Scholar idiot because of his minority status, never mind his appalling behaviour. Anyway, like Bimble, I am not posting on this anymore, one million people living in destitution in the UK, wish more on the left would take cognisance of that.

what a load of old gubbins - took me 4 secs search to find the first person Bimble quotes vs HnN/UAR is a Harry place Zionist bigot .

Timewasting bollocks this.

 

[Pickman's model]

what a load of old gubbins - took me 4 secs search to find the first person Bimble quotes vs HnN/UAR is a Harry place Zionist bigot .

Timewasting bollocks this.

You can tell a lot about someone by the sources they rely on

 

[butchersapron]

I seem to recall both treelover and bimble offering praise and likes to said 'U75 poster' for speaking 'uncomfortable truths' on the Cologne thread whilst attacking a number of posters here too who were trying to provide a more nuanced analysis of the situation and possible agenda's at work.

Said 'U75 poster' with a history of sexism, homophobia and flirtations with fascist rhetoric.

And a ban for anti semitism.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Jesus. The sources alleging that he said 'jews' instead of 'the jews in israel' are not reliable. Stormfront seem to love him though.
All that seems sure is that he was accused of saying it and hasn't denied it. Maybe he said the Jews in Israel should go back to where they came from, I don't know. That's why I used two question marks and an 'if true'.
& If I wanted to accuse anyone here of being antisemite I'd have done so. The rush to defend this bloke when apparently nobody knows quite what he said does sadden me though.

Very few people on here, except a few vestigial Swappies, are defending Bennett - he's an arrogant demagogue - let alone "rushing to", they're merely asking people to support any contention with evidence.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Maybe i'm being overly sensitive but being (i think) sarcastically called 'a tireless opponent of anti-semitism' is actually really hurtful. You don't know me or what antisemitism has meant to me. This whole topic is one where i shouldn't be buggering about on the internet with really, too touchy & personal. Especially with the constant accusations of being crafty having a secret agenda etc. Sod this for a game of soldiers.

Some of us have spent over a decade putting over the Jewish side of the coin, despite personally suffering anti-Semitism here and in real life. If critique is too painful for you, then you shouldn't expose yourself to it, naturally. Please don't insinuate that critique is somehow an attack on your Jewishness, rather than on the character of your posts, though. That's disingenuous at best, and dishonest at worst.

 

[DrRingDing]

Meanwhile in the only democracy in the middle east Israel holding 10 Palestinian journalists, six of them without charges - Israel News

 

[nino_savatte]

Long read but Norman hits the nail;

The American Jewish scholar behind Labour’s ‘antisemitism’ scandal breaks his silence

I posted that earlier up the thread.

 

[butchersapron]

I'd say that's the point for some of those who are doing it.

Other, largely compatible, goals might include:

NuLabour right attacking Corbyn because their career prospects are more important than eg the NHS

Partisans of a murderous racist state using anti-semitism accusations to suppress critics and make criticism untenable within mainstream politics

Actual neo-fascists and third way types who want to see the old left compromised as pro-immigrant dupes

People who really do think that basing a massive witchunt on a few idiots on the left saying stupid stuff is worth the price of forwarding the agendas of the previously listed groups.

Etc.

Some, probably unintended, side effects of such a witchunt might also bear consideration ...

I think having a look at the overlaps - intended or unintended - here may be useful. Ball rollers: An ideological clear neo-liberal core in the labour party consisting of the old staffers, their once media contacts and student/intern types who want into these networks + a big chunk of the PLP who feel they have lost position and place under cobrbyn and will lose further if he leads them into the election.

Intentions=get rid of corbyn but mostly with the aim of rebuilding labour on a new new labour basis for electoral success. Method=extension and intensification of extremism claims (given wider racism is off the cards) and with winks and whistles to muslim takeover narrative. Result=eaten alive by a larger tory dog with the aim of destroying the labour party entire. Method= using far more influential and closer to power media contacts and networks to suggest crisis is engulfing entire labour party including the ball rollers. And they benefit from the first groups desperate attempts to push home their attacks and regain control. They need not even attack that hard yet.

The fascists and third position types in the shadows are interesting as well - in this country they are staunchly pro-israeli state, in france staunchly anti-israeli state, in germany pro-israel. The large muslim influence in the french far-right - think scum like dieudonne. And of course, this stuff feeds into the stuff that has been used as the background noise in this country=these are not british values, where have they come from, who is attacking british values?

 

[nino_savatte]

Bimble is Jewish as she has said herself, I thought as i have repeatedly noted that in the anti-racism movement , that if someone from a minority is offended by what they perceived as racist comments, then they are indeed being discriminated against,

I reckon you're one of those who takes complaints of anti-Semitism seriously but waves away complaints of racism with a "you've got a chip on your shoulder" or "you're paranoid" - as you've done with me in the past.

 

[butchersapron]

Very few people on here, except a few vestigial Swappies, are defending Bennett - he's an arrogant demagogue - let alone "rushing to", they're merely asking people to support any contention with evidence.

Yes, even before his accusations of theft and racism against some posters from here in 2004 he was seen as a bit of a dishonest lightweight bigmouth. But given the little digression about evans above and the proper use of evidence/irving trial i think the response from bimble to the reporting of what he may have said said has been interesting. Especially after linking to Toube. There's clearly some wider connections existing in the background here - whether they are being freshly formed via google or more long-standing i don't yet know.

 

[nino_savatte]

The Chief Rabbi does his bit for the smear campaign.

Britain’s chief rabbi has claimed that Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour has a severe problem with antisemitism and warned that the party must not resort to political posturing and empty promises.

In a newspaper article, Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis said the crisis engulfing Labour had “lifted the lid” on bigotry, and warned that the party’s inquiry into antisemitism must be more than a “sticking plaster” or it would simply worsen the proble
Chief rabbi: Labour has severe problem with antisemitism

R4's Today programme carried this 'story' then suddenly dropped it by 0830.

 

[killer b]

I think a lot of it u

I'd say that's the point for some of those who are doing it.

Other, largely compatible, goals might include:

NuLabour right attacking Corbyn because their career prospects are more important than eg the NHS

Partisans of a murderous racist state using anti-semitism accusations to suppress critics and make criticism untenable within mainstream politics

Actual neo-fascists and third way types who want to see the old left compromised as pro-immigrant dupes

People who really do think that basing a massive witchunt on a few idiots on the left saying stupid stuff is worth the price of forwarding the agendas of the previously listed groups.

Etc.

Some, probably unintended, side effects of such a witchunt might also bear consideration ...

It's the perfect dead cat really, as far as the tories are concerned - serves a load of different purposes.

- Keeps Labour distracted and on the back foot in the run up to the locals, having to deal with this clusterfuck instead of keeping the focus on Tory policy failures
- Makes Labour criticism of their own racist campaigning less credible
- Stirs up a whole load of infighting among Labour activists and supporters - and has flushed out a load of people with... unsophisticated views on the Israel/Palestine conflict for screenshotting & later use.

 

[Dogsauce]

The Chief Rabbi does his bit for the smear campaign.


R4's Today programme carried this 'story' then suddenly dropped it by 0830.

BBC newspaper review also described Labour's 'problems with antisemitism' as 'dominating the news again' when it appeared on the cover of two papers. They're very heavily invested in this story and seem to be talking it up constantly. Who's pulling the strings?

 

[teqniq]

All the parties whose interests currently intersect over this as usefully pointed out mostly by Bernie above.

 

[nino_savatte]

Who's pulling the strings?

I'll give you three guesses. He's Australian, he's a racist and he's Dan Hodge's bessie mate.

 

[teqniq]

Finally Finklestien's opinions on this whole nasty mess have made it to at least one major UK publication

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Cameron working himself into an utter lather over this on PMQs, answered none of Corbyn's questions and instead banged on about Corbyn being a 'friend' of Hamas, the Hamas charter and blah blah.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

BBC newspaper review also described Labour's 'problems with antisemitism' as 'dominating the news again' when it appeared on the cover of two papers. They're very heavily invested in this story and seem to be talking it up constantly. Who's pulling the strings?

It's so transparently a smear campaign now it's laughable. I think they risk going too far with it if they carry on much longer.

 

[killer b]

Cameron working himself into an utter lather over this on PMQs, answered none of Corbyn's questions and instead banged on about Corbyn being a 'friend' of Hamas, the Hamas charter and blah blah.

yeah, that's what this was for (among other things) - they've been pushing this narrative since before he was leader. Presume they had most of the info they're using now since before he was leader too.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

yeah, that's what this was for (among other things) - they've been pushing this narrative since before he was leader. Presume they had most of the info they're using now since before he was leader too.

Good point, the whole Hamas thing was brewing before Corbyn got elected. I think the electorate will see through it. Cameron pretty much shrugged his shoulders about rising homelessness, the Rowntree report about destitution, rising numbers going to food banks again etc but got all red faced and shouty at Corbyn and demanded he publically denounce his apparent friendship with Hamas.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Labour doing well in the locals tomorrow would be hilarious. Just for shits and giggles I hope it's a landslide.