gosub
~#
That would cost I imagine.
Labour & Anti-Semitism.
- Thread starter cantsin
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Free for Gchq mind
cantsin
Well-Known Member
Blairite Unionist Kiesza Dudgale blaming Scots Labs impending electoral shitshow on ..... ' the anti semitism row' http://gu.com/.p/4tpbe/stw
Possibly nearing peak 'anti semitism row ' bollocks now ...
Possibly nearing peak 'anti semitism row ' bollocks now ...
Pointless excuse-making, given that SNP were always on for a big win anyway. Or rather Nicola Sturgeon was
This 'anti-semitism row' bollocks really is bollocks though. Whatever peakthere was init should have been reaches after Naz Shah gave her pretty thorough apology.
Not enough has been said -- away from on here --about Lynton Crosby and Scumbag Fawkes 'roles in shitstirring it up. The BBC (especially) and also Guardian's wilingness to go along with their agenda, without ever mentioning them. has been a fucking disgrace, albeit no surprise. And too many 'Labour' people have been Crosby's willing stooges too. That's also a disgrace, given that Corbyn has done pretty much everything that any reasonable person would want-- stress there on 'reasonable'!
None of this takes away from my view that Ken Livingstone has been an utter twat, mind you.
Not enough has been said -- away from on here --about Lynton Crosby and Scumbag Fawkes 'roles in shitstirring it up. The BBC (especially) and also Guardian's wilingness to go along with their agenda, without ever mentioning them. has been a fucking disgrace, albeit no surprise. And too many 'Labour' people have been Crosby's willing stooges too. That's also a disgrace, given that Corbyn has done pretty much everything that any reasonable person would want-- stress there on 'reasonable'!
None of this takes away from my view that Ken Livingstone has been an utter twat, mind you.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I almost wrote earlier in the week that the left doesn't have a problem with anti-semitism, it has a problem with conspiracy theorists who think they're on the left. And it does, but that's a whole different problem than labours.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I think Malik is spot on there.
With one caveat.
It doesn't apply to the whole of "the left" but rather to a certain noisy subset of it - that the likes of the SWP, Momentum, Left Unity, Respect etc. and their fellow travellers in Labour are good examples of.
That's not "the Left" though.
Then, as butchers mentioned there's the conspiracists who've infected other sections of the left (e.g. Occupy) in recent years.
With one caveat.
It doesn't apply to the whole of "the left" but rather to a certain noisy subset of it - that the likes of the SWP, Momentum, Left Unity, Respect etc. and their fellow travellers in Labour are good examples of.
That's not "the Left" though.
Then, as butchers mentioned there's the conspiracists who've infected other sections of the left (e.g. Occupy) in recent years.
A whole load of those conspiracy theorists are now members of or vocal supporters of Labour (or at least Corbyn's leadership) - which is what, more than anything IMO, has given this attack traction.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, i did add something about the newer (and i think temporary) members but deleted it. It's that crossover section that will keep this alive (and they are now also in the other section that chilango mentioned). But they still aren't really labour - they're just there on holiday.
And pretty much inactive, except online as far as I can tell. I've been out canvassing with my dad a few times the past few weeks and the only feet on the ground I've seen round here are long term members.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
...and the fecking internet
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
...and the fecking internet
...and the end of apartheid.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Under the guise of balance, Malik concedes far too much to the right. The racism of the tory party and the so-called 'antisemitism' of the labour party are nothing like equivalent. Antisemitism in the labour party amounts to a tiny handful of comments on social media, racism in the conservatives permeates every level of the party, right up to Cameron himself. Imagine, for example, if Corbyn had referred to jews as a 'swarm' or suggested that Cameron displayed a lack of commitment to the British people by meeting 'a bunch of jews' - just as Cameron talked about the migrants in Calais. And if Corbyn referring to Hamas and Hizbullah as 'friends' indicates his willingness to turn a blind eye to antisemitism, can the same be said of Cameron for his far cosier relationship with Saudi Arabia - the world's largest disseminator of nazi-style antisemitism?
The crisis in the labour party is not an antisemitism crisis, its a crisis of loyalty in the PLP, so much so that they are largely happy to join with the tories, the rightwing media and the Israel lobby in smearing their own leadership, party and membership for factional gain. When anti-racist jews like Tony Greenstein and Jackie Walker get booted out of the party at the behest of rightwing Israel lobbyists you know that something has seriously gone wrong.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's a short comment piece specifically on thew left and labour, not a polemical attack on the right.
Yes - but it's been enabled by the conspiracy theorists anti-semites who currently pollute left-wing discourse. The attacks work because there's just enough truth in them.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
There will always be a small number of idiots and bigots though - there isn't too much you can do about that. What you can do is avoid exaggerating the importance and influence of such people - and damaging your own party in the process. But sadly, a confluence of interests has done just that.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
It's true it is the crackpots around the edge of the left who are the worst, and they have little to no actual influence. But I have often seen clearly anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists not being challenged by people, when if they had made other sorts of racist comments they would have been. I've also seen very clumsy anti-Israel rhetoric not being challenged, when other language is carefully policed - and this is more mainstream.
But still, I find myself annoyed at joining in the soul-searching at this particular moment, given it's all been sparked by a bunch of anti-Corbyn partisans who can't even do any soul-searching because they don't fucking have any souls. But as killer b says, there's just enough truth for the attack to work. There were a fair number of people on my fb feed who last week thought that the best use of their energy was to defend what Ken Livingstone said. That doesn't look pretty, particularly when I know they'd come down like a ton of bricks on any clumsily worded sentiments about immigration or muslims.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Yes, that's really well put. Very hard to do soul-searching when you're being attacked by people with no souls! I think the left could and should definitely do better in all the ways you identify, but I get defensively reactive when these sort of allegations are leveled by the utter chancers and charlatans of the right.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
But why? If you're on solid ground then it should be easy enough to turn their attacks on them.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
I think it is easy to turn the attacks on them, and that's what the labour party should have done. But they didn't. For a variety of reasons they joined with the Tories in attacking their own party instead. That's what's so frustrating.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
This is what they did in the 1980s when the party was faced with accusations that they were dominated by Militant. It seems they've learnt no lessons and as I've said before: Labour suffers from a crippling inferiority complex. If they returned fire instead of running scared for the hills, they might get somewhere. The Tories are racist shits and when this is pointed out to them, they wave it aside. There seems to be a hierarchy of racisms in their mind too: anti-Semitism comes top and other forms, like anti-Ziganism, come bottom.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I was on about more on the personal level though - you said that you acted 'defensively reactive'. Labour can't really turn the tables as they're all at the same game and have been for ages. All piss in the same pot, all use communalism (or it's more acceptable electoral face) when they can.
The reason i picked up on what you said about how you may react is because i was later today going to make a point about another consequence of all this - helping to forge or strengthen bonds between the loon types and the left as represented by someone like Livingstone - someone who took money from the sun to write for them in the years immediately after hillsborough and not once, but week after week. Someone who took money from anti-semitic and holocaust denying press-tv to present a program, not once, but week after week. Someone who called on the population of london to rise up and break RMT strikes and possibly the union. This little crossover is going to come out of this with new connections and new confidence - conspiracy and anti-semitism re-affirmed. And that spells trouble for a lot of people.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
going round in circles here, but what evidence is there of any conspiraloons polluting 'left wing discourse' as opposed to just doing their usual bullshit thing online ?
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
.....and the mossad.
The state of israel loves a bit of genocide You're not allowed to know if Israel sold weapons to Rwanda during its genocide
I don't have any detailed analysis, but I see and am involved with a lot of left wing discourse. I can see it happening.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
aka : more hearsay
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