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Labour & Anti-Semitism.

What opinions do you think people would have of the posts I quoted? Why do you think there is a widespread belief that labour/the left have an antisemitism problem?
The widespread belief has been created by an inherently anti-Labour media. Jewish Voice for Labour hardly ever get any airtime. You may not like them, but their viewpoint should be heard. The slur against Labour has so often been that they are institutionally anti-Semitic, yet no-one ever manages to explain what this means. A lot of Jewish Labour members say they have never encountered anti-Semitism in the Party. Why should I not believe them?
 
they've the memory of a goldfish

no, its merely that Labours' anti-semitism problem was 'a thing' when there was a reasonable, and immediate (however you define that) chance of them being in government - now neither of those things are true, so its less of 'a thing', and therefore gets less coverage - though the hugely courageous way RLB stood up to that 'Israeli looby' loon the other day got some coverage....
 
Those political opponents of Corbyn-esque Labour prepared to weaponise the anti-semitism within the party also know that to continue with such high-profile attacks might provoke action that would undermine the chance of re-weaponising in 2024.
 
tbf I tend to swing towards lazythursady etc’s perspective on this... but when you’ve got RLB answering like she did above, and borderline cranks like kevbad not really thinking about what they’re saying... it doesn’t leave me hopeful. But I think we need a left wing Labour Party. Shit is just getting eroded away under the tories.
 
Out of curiosity, how come Nandy (chair fo Labour friends of Palestine) comes in for the ‘Zionist lobby’ crap, but Barbara Keeley (member of Labour friends of Israel) doesn’t? I know Keeley is very much a ‘head down, stick to your brief’ type (of which I’m glad - she’s needed in her role), but it doesn’t take long to discover she’s in LFI.
 
tbf I tend to swing towards lazythursady etc’s perspective on this... but when you’ve got RLB answering like she did above, and borderline cranks like kevbad not really thinking about what they’re saying... it doesn’t leave me hopeful. But I think we need a left wing Labour Party. Shit is just getting eroded away under the tories.
I may be borderline but I ain’t no crank
 
The difference is that one gets exceptionalised and relentlessly focused on and turned into a conspiracy and one doesn't, yes
At the risk of repeating myself, the accusations of anti-Semitism may well be partly an organised conspiracy, or entirely spontaneous and opportunistic, but either way largely groundless. People go on about it because they’re pissed off at 5 years of Johnson, and think that part of the reason Labour lost is because of all the smears.
 
At the risk of repeating myself, the accusations of anti-Semitism may well be partly an organised conspiracy, or entirely spontaneous and opportunistic, but either way largely groundless. People go on about it because they’re pissed off at 5 years of Johnson, and think that part of the reason Labour lost is because of all the smears.

Do you think that anyone reading this would think “oh yeah, it’s all bollocks, the Labour Party/labour left aren’t a bunch of nutters”?
 
At the risk of repeating myself, the accusations of anti-Semitism may well be partly an organised conspiracy, or entirely spontaneous and opportunistic, but either way largely groundless. People go on about it because they’re pissed off at 5 years of Johnson, and think that part of the reason Labour lost is because of all the smears.

Thing is mate you are saying it is largely groundless while also banging on about the israeli lobby and how the state of israel attempts to intervene in UK politics. When I commented that all sorts of interest groups lobby and lots of states intervene in the politics of other states, and gave a recent example of india, you said these weren't of the same concern and nobody banged on about india because nobody was accusing labour of being anti-indian (although actually that was exactly the intervention by modi/bjp supporters but by the by) before then banging on more about israel and potential conspiracies.

Do you see the problem here pal or nah
 
And for clarity, nobody sensible would deny that there is opportunism and factionalism and plain old red baiting around antisemitism but, and here is the key factor, it is because its a soft spot, an easy target. And it's an easy target because very clearly there is a problem with antisemitism - and with palestinian festishisation and israeli exceptionalism - on the left.

Its an open door so shut it, fucks sake
 
If it was 'largely groundless' Kevbad the whole anti-semitism campaign would not have been so successful at discrediting Labour. It's the fact that there were genuine examples of antisemitism (on and offline, but perhaps mainly online) that made this so toxic. And then the endless denials that there was any problem whatsoever just added a whole load more fuel to the fire.

It's quite possible to recognise that there was a smear campaign, that groups in and out of the party used this issue despicably, and also recognise that a small number of actual outright anti-semites / a larger number of unwitting, ignorant anti-semites and defensive denialists jumped up and down performing exactly the role that the media wanted..
 
Thing is mate you are saying it is largely groundless while also banging on about the israeli lobby and how the state of israel attempts to intervene in UK politics. When I commented that all sorts of interest groups lobby and lots of states intervene in the politics of other states, and gave a recent example of india, you said these weren't of the same concern and nobody banged on about india because nobody was accusing labour of being anti-indian (although actually that was exactly the intervention by modi/bjp supporters but by the by) before then banging on more about israel and potential conspiracies.

Do you see the problem here pal or nah
The problem is that the media were full of it, and they weren’t full of anti-Indian stuff. Can’t you see that, or nah
 
And for clarity, nobody sensible would deny that there is opportunism and factionalism and plain old red baiting around antisemitism but, and here is the key factor, it is because its a soft spot, an easy target. And it's an easy target because very clearly there is a problem with antisemitism - and with palestinian festishisation and israeli exceptionalism - on the left.

Its an open door so shut it, fucks sake
It’s an easy target because Corbyn and his advisors handled it so badly, not because the Labour Party is anti-Semitic as an organisation, and because the media (again) is so biased. Not just the Tory press but our friends in the Guardian as well.
 
It’s an easy target because Corbyn and his advisors handled it so badly, not because the Labour Party is anti-Semitic as an organisation, and because the media (again) is so biased. Not just the Tory press but our friends in the Guardian as well.
Of course the leadership handled it terribly and of course the media was biased. But is that really the whole story? At the absolute minimum, there were an awful lot of people sharing antisemitic memes and tropes - often without necessarily realising what they were doing, as in the case of the infamous mural. And then telling Jewish people that they were simply wrong that there was any antisemitism. I'm not Jewish but I know how the whole farrago would have made me feel if I was, and it saddens me that there still remains a lack of empathy on this from large parts of the left. It doesn't matter that some of it was smears, and media confected, there were fucking appalling examples like actual Labour councillors sharing holocaust denial material.
 
Of course the leadership handled it terribly and of course the media was biased. But is that really the whole story? At the absolute minimum, there were an awful lot of people sharing antisemitic memes and tropes - often without necessarily realising what they were doing, as in the case of the infamous mural. And then telling Jewish people that they were simply wrong that there was any antisemitism. I'm not Jewish but I know how the whole farrago would have made me feel if I was, and it saddens me that there still remains a lack of empathy on this from large parts of the left. It doesn't matter that some of it was smears, and media confected, there were fucking appalling examples like actual Labour councillors sharing holocaust denial material.
Yet Jewish friends and acquaintances tell me different.
 
I've mentioned this before and ages ago, but there's a certain proportion of "Labour equals antisemitism" stuff relating to people who are not Labour Party members at all, or who just pretend to be LP on line, or, in some cases, were LP once but have been expelled.

Just saying.

But I broadly agree with a lot of lazythursday 's recent posts more generally.
 
I've mentioned this before and ages ago, but there's a certain proportion of "Labour equals antisemitism" stuff relating to people who are not Labour Party members at all, or who just pretend to be LP on line, or, in some cases, were LP once but have been expelled.

Just saying.

But I broadly agree with a lot of lazythursday 's recent posts more generally.
Fair enough. But i’ve yet to be given answers to my questions. Just how is the Labour Party institutionally anti-Semitic? M.p’s, peers, councillors, CLP officials etc up and down the country are of Jewish heritage. Some pRo-Israel ones, and right-wingers, see anti-semitism everywhere. Anti-Zionist ones don’t.

Jewish Voice for Labour are accused of all manner of stuff, yet no-one can point out anything anti-Semitic on their website.

Yes, some people (a tiny handful), are dead nasty and most of those have left or been expelled, incidentally with the full support of groups such as JVL. But a lot more are subjected to an unfair disciplinary procedure. Only recently Jo Bird was standing for the NEC and was temporarily suspended. She is Jewish and anti-Zionist. Until enough fuss was made her candidature was suspended too. That kind of thing happens all the time. If anything the LP machinery is institutionally anti-anti-Zionist.
 
why are you making statements which you know full well to be untrue?

you lying little shit


Arseholes, bastards, fucking cunts and pricks! See, I can do that too.

On a more serious note, all you are doing is showing us google searches which give links to articles about the likes of Williamson and Walker, about both of whom there are varying opinions. Not evidence.
 
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