Keir Starmer's time is up

[The39thStep]

There's a frequent misunderstanding that Green policies are somehow socialist. The Greens may not be particularly right wing, but they most certainly are not left wing. A casual reading of their 2024 election manifesto would confirm that.

Wait till anyone meets their Green cousins in Germany and their feminist foreign policy for bombing Gaza

 

[brogdale]

Is half your argument really just "look at their faces"?

Do you not know who they are?

 

[planetgeli]

Good line, but it's not true is it? I mean unless you think the Greens and Greenpeace (see above) are right wing. It also assumes that the free marker impulse so eloquently expressed by McTernan and which guides Treasury orthodoxy is somehow 'left wing'.

I'd also be interested in the evidence for the claim of 'business' support for independent farmers. Do you mean in the way a rope supports a hanged man?

I live in the middle of farming territory. I see, daily, where those posters are going up. Supermarkets, ironically, are a pretty big example.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Is half your argument really just "look at their faces"?

About 90% I reckon, even though the photos on the thread are mainly of opportunistic politicians and celebrities.

 

[burtabraham]

Do you not know who they are?

Yes, I'm aware. But it's like the third time you've posted a picture of peoples' mugs, as if that's an argument in and of itself. How about answer this:

Will this proposed tax increase or decrease the prevalance these practices?

 

[planetgeli]

Ok. I think it does vary a lot depending on where you are. Rural Wales, where I grew up, is not like that at all.

It depends a bit on the farming too. IME, dairy farmers (the smaller ones) do tend to do all the work themselves. 24/7/365. Meat farming not so much.

 

[brogdale]

Yes, I'm aware. But it's like the third time you've posted a picture of peoples' mugs, as if that's an argument in and of itself. How about answer this:

No idea what your question is about, tbh.

 

[burtabraham]

No idea what your question is about, tbh.

What do you mean?

 

[burtabraham]

Man pretends to not know how to follow a basic conversation

 

[gosub]

View attachment 451673

how would that work?

 

[gosub]

I'm not saying Clarkson isnt a cunt but the Archers and Countryfile seem very reluctant to talk about this

 

[brogdale]

Just heard Clarkson whining on the radio; a real cunts' cunt if ever there was one.

Hilarious!

 

[two sheds]

"Classic BBC there. Classic" ... "not the fact ... the fact ..." interviewer gives the fact

And not from that nasty pervy twitter site (it's nice to actually be able to give a Like to the post)

and a couple of posts below :

 

[belboid]

I'm not saying Clarkson isnt a cunt but the Archers and Countryfile seem very reluctant to talk about this

I dont think the news has crept through to Ambridge yet. They have had some interesting discussions about the general issue in the past. Obviously, if Brian says he thinks it is a good move, I will be revisiting my own opinion on the matter.

 

[Elpenor]

Stories take 3-6 months to filter through to plot lines

With the chat about Housing musical chairs for the privileged Bridge Farm Archers there’s a good opportunity to introduce this storyline

 

[brogdale]

We do need to distinguish here between the majority of farmers, who are relatively small holders, and the minority who run the megafarms and are very much part of all kinds of problems.

Too easy to descend into caricature. A lot of farmers struggle to get by. It's possible to acknowledge that while also not turning them into saints.

Under the proposed arrangement any farm owner & spouse will carry a near £3m exemption anyway before IHT kicks in. I think that covers what we might call small holders.

 

[iona]

Is that true? What percentage of farmers don't really do their own farm work?

Genuine question. IME, while they may well employ others and pay them very badly, most also work hard themselves.

Vast majority of the farmers I know do almost all of their own farm work (with help from family members), plus a lot of the other jobs needed to keep the place running (building work & maintenance, plumbing, roofing, basic vehicle and machinery repairs, etc.). Lots have had to diversify into stuff like camping/glamping or farm tours and "experiences" and some have other part time jobs off the farm because they need the money.

I think I must be living in a parallel universe or something judging by the last few pages of this thread.

 

[brogdale]

Vast majority of the farmers I know do almost all of their own farm work (with help from family members), plus a lot of the other jobs needed to keep the place running (building work & maintenance, plumbing, roofing, basic vehicle and machinery repairs, etc.). Lots have had to diversify into stuff like camping/glamping or farm tours and "experiences" and some have other part time jobs off the farm because they need the money.

I think I must be living in a parallel universe or something judging by the last few pages of this thread.

The sort of people able to pass £3m+ to their offspring?

 

[iona]

The sort of people able to pass £3m+ to their offspring?

In certain areas, where that's tied up in buildings and land and equipment and livestock that can't actually be sold if you want to keep running the business, especially after a year or two of bad weather or other problems? I wouldn't be that shocked.

And while the inheritance tax thing is getting most attention at the moment, it's far from the only thing farmers are pissed off about.

E2a and the £3m thing is making some assumptions for a start. One issue quite a few of the second, third etc generation farmers I know are having is disagreements over succession planning and their parents not wanting to give up control of the business while they still have a few years left to live - often because after decades of just about keeping their heads above water, the idea of letting their kids come in and make changes and risk losing it all is terrifying

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Just Stop Oil have also joined the protests today:



It's almost like some people can see beyond the crude stereotypes of farmers and are rightly raising the more profound consequences.

Meanwhile, London born and Surrey raised Keir Starmer claims he's basically from farming stock...

I also say this; I know that in rural communities – I grew up in one – we also need really good schools, really good hospitals, and we need houses that people could afford to live in, and they were the measures that we invested heavily in the budget.

 

[magneze]

More of those everyday country folk..

View attachment 451704

Are they all Tory MPs?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

In certain areas, where that's tied up in buildings and land and equipment and livestock that can't actually be sold if you want to keep running the business, especially after a year or two of bad weather or other problems? I wouldn't be that shocked.

And while the inheritance tax thing is getting most attention at the moment, it's far from the only thing farmers are pissed off about.

Yes. I listened to two young women interviewed on the Daily Politics at lunchtime. Like most workers, they can see their future disappearing down the drain. Their list of grievances were long and they see the Tax as a continuation of attacks on their jobs and lives. One worked for less than the minimum wage on the basis that one day she would own her families farm.

They did not appear to me to be "gammon ruddy faced Clarkson types" engaged in tax avoidance.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Meanwhile, London born and Surrey raised Keir Starmer claims he's basically from farming stock...

HIs dad used to make ploughs apparently.

 

[iona]

Yes. I listened to two young women interviewed on the Daily Politics at lunchtime. Like most workers, they can see their future disappearing down the drain. Their list of grievances were long and they see the Tax as a continuation of attacks on their jobs and lives. One worked for less than the minimum wage on the basis that one day she would own her families farm.

They did not appear to me to be "gammon ruddy faced Clarkson types" engaged in tax avoidance.

I reckon adding up all the hours actually worked would see quite a few people struggling if they had to pay themselves at least minimum wage for all of that time.

 

[brogdale]

Just Stop Oil have also joined the protests today:



It's almost like some people can see beyond the crude stereotypes of farmers and are rightly raising the more profound consequences.

Meanwhile, London born and Surrey raised Keir Starmer claims he's basically from farming stock...

Nothing wrong with showing solidarity with agricultural workers, but marching with the cunts that exploit them doesn't look like the smartest move from JSO.

 

[belboid]

Just Stop Oil have also joined the protests today:



It's almost like some people can see beyond the crude stereotypes of farmers and are rightly raising the more profound consequences.

and, again, they say nothing about the issue around inheritance tax, which is where the disagreement is. No one denies small farmers have been fucked over or that there are many things which need to be done to sort that, and British food generally, out. Just that these people (the biggest benefactors undoubtedly being the larger landowners) should pay inheritance tax like the rest of us.

Even that one article that convinced you of your now strongly held opinion said it wasn't actually that big a deal.

 

[belboid]

I reckon adding up all the hours actually worked would see quite a few people struggling if they had to pay themselves at least minimum wage for all of that time.

oh god, they'd be totally fucked. No question over that. Shitty trade deals and the megafarms are way more to blame tho than relatively small inheritance issues.

 

[iona]

oh god, they'd be totally fucked. No question over that. Shitty trade deals and the megafarms are way more to blame tho than relatively small inheritance issues.

Aye and like I said a few posts back, the inheritance tax thing is getting a lot of attention atm but it's far from the only reason farmers are pissed off.

 

[brogdale]

Aye and like I said a few posts back, the inheritance tax thing is getting a lot of attention atm but it's far from the only reason farmers are pissed off.

Remind me of all of those farm protests that kicked off between 2010 and 2024 when so many factors adversely affected farming?

 

[brogdale]

Yes. I listened to two young women interviewed on the Daily Politics at lunchtime. Like most workers, they can see their future disappearing down the drain. Their list of grievances were long and they see the Tax as a continuation of attacks on their jobs and lives. One worked for less than the minimum wage on the basis that one day she would own her families farm.

They did not appear to me to be "gammon ruddy faced Clarkson types" engaged in tax avoidance.

Oh yes, the poor owners of the means of production.