Keir Starmer's time is up

[Everything Goes]

My experience of lowland arable farmers is that they were universally tory supporting arrogant cunts who exploited their workforce and constantly pleaded poverty from their Mercs; squeeze em till the pips squeak.

A lot of Farmers also supported Brexit, it was funny to see the trade deal Johnson got with Australia, totally shafting them. It's hard to feel sorry for them.

 

[brogdale]

A lot of Farmers also supported Brexit, it was funny to see the trade deal Johnson got with Australia, totally shafting them. It's hard to feel sorry for them.

Yep, I know that the farming lobby have subsequently put out "data" to show that farming support for Brexit wasn't far from th national average (58% or summat, IIRC) but, certainly in lowland Southern England, there were loads of big Leave signs in famers' fields. I suspect many upland farmers knew full well to what extent they depended on EU subsidy for survival, but the big bastard lowlanders obviously believed the vermin's lies about continuity of subsidy.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yep, I know that the farming lobby have subsequently put out "data" to show that farming support for Brexit wasn't far from th national average (58% or summat, IIRC) but, certainly in lowland Southern England, there were loads of big Leave signs in famers' fields. I suspect many upland farmers knew full well to what extent they depended on EU subsidy for survival, but the big bastard lowlanders obviously believed the vermin's lies about continuity of subsidy.

tbh i think the number of uk farmers will decline considerably over the next decade. but it is hard to accept their protestations about how they understand the countryside when they have played such a great part in the degradation of nature and pollution of rivers.

 

[DotCommunist]

also shooting pet dogs and wild badgers.

 

[Pickman's model]

also shooting pet dogs and wild badgers.

and soon themselves

 

[brogdale]

tbh i think the number of uk farmers will decline considerably over the next decade. but it is hard to accept their protestations about how they understand the countryside when they have played such a great part in the degradation of nature and pollution of rivers.

Yes, I well remember the old (wet) tory minister Jim Prior saying that farmers should wake each morning and thank the Lord for the EEC/EC CAP that incentivised them to produce ever more food. Of course, all of that rampant intensification was at the cost of habitats like woodland, hedgerows, ponds, wetlands, marshes and heaths.

 

[krtek a houby]

and soon themselves

 

[Sue]

My experience of lowland arable farmers is that they were universally tory supporting arrogant cunts who exploited their workforce and constantly pleaded poverty from their Mercs; squeeze em till the pips squeak.

Back in the day, I used to do casual hospitality work at various agricultural shows. I can confirm that they are indeed all cunts who'd argue over paying every fucking time ('£20? I'll give you £16 for cash') before pulling out a huge wad of notes and very, very reluctantly paying. Generally only after you'd threatened to remove their drinks/food/whatever if they didn't cough up. You can imagine how much fun that was over a 12-hour shift.

 

[Lord Camomile]

And the lowly born, son of a toolmaker's people clearly want us to hold that image of our dear leader...

View attachment 451498

I'm no great photographer/messaging guru, but does including the no.10 mug in the foreground work if it's out of focus?

It's very distracting, so you can't help but notice it, but I feel like if the viewer then has to pause and think, "...huh, what's that say..? Oh, right, '10'" then any subtle contextual messaging has been kinda torpedoed.

Add that to the fact no-one would set their mug down like that sitting where Starmer is, and it's just... bleh.

There's a lorra light and shiny surfaces, which prob makes it harder, but still...

Yeah, this was definitely worth all of those words

 

[Sue]

I'm no great photographer/messaging guru, but does including the no.10 mug in the foreground work if it's out of focus?

It's very distracting, so you can't help but notice it, but I feel like if the viewer then has to pause and think, "...huh, what's that say..? Oh, right, '10'" then any subtle contextual messaging has been kinda torpedoed.

Add that to the fact no-one would set their mug down like that sitting where Starmer is, and it's just... bleh.

There's a lorra light and shiny surfaces, which prob makes it harder, but still...

Yeah, this was definitely worth all of those words

The reflection thing is just plain weird.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

With the caveat that I consider Starmer to be an outright cunt with few or no redeeming aspects to his character, I completely agree with the decision to levy inheritance tax on wealthy farmers, I've lived for many years in 2 different Farming communities and the rubbish about this being an attack on small holdings is complete diversionary bollox from wealthy and priviliged landowners. most farms in this country are owned by families who most would describe as well orf or Rich. they fiercely defend their wealth and constantly hold the public purse to ransom with the usually completely made up threat of going out of business, many if not most Famers with sizable Land assets are free masons with strong connections to the police force, councils and of course other businesses in the network, either that or they Let land from the same.
Country ways..y'know?
There are still a fair number of hill farmers relying on common pasture rights and with low assets and others working small holdings, these will not be affected by the new Tax, despite what the rich boys will shout out whilst parading down the high street in the £150,000 Tractor that your taxes helped pay for.
In the UK we still pay Landowners simply because they have Land and agreed not to develope it.
Fuck em, the only problem with the new tax is that its watered down.

Two questions, which I will caveat by saying I know nothing about the detail of farming/agriculture:

1. Won't the tax simply encourage family farmers to sell up to the big corporates who are steadily taking over the industry and for whom inheritence tax isn't an issue? How is this a good idea?
2. I'm not seeing the political logic in picking a fight over a tax that will raise a relatively trivial amount over the lifetime of this parliament. Food supply, food prices, working conditons and wage rates and a sectoral approach to planning seem - to me - to be far more important issues. As for rich farmers paying their share, great, but a wealth tax would raise more and be far more effective. Why have the fight over this issue?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The reflection thing is just plain weird.

He's sitting on his own with only his reflection for company.

He, and he alone, understands what needs to be done for the country, sat in a private jet, talking to his reflection.

It makes him look, well, friendless.

 

[Whagwan]

Easier, and more soothing on the ego, to jet in comfort around the globe meeting fellow elite liberal capitalists, media lackeys and other hangers on than to deal with the grievances of the low information classes isn't it.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Meanwhile, here is Sir Keir Starmer with members of the Arunima Kumar Dance Company during a reception that he hosted to mark Diwali ...

(Source: as stated in image)​

... at which meat and alcohol were served.

Cows are considered a sacred animal by Hindus, and and many choose not to eat beef, while other Hindus avoid meat altogether. Practising Sikhs and Jains are also vegetarians and abstain from alcohol.

Prime Minister's office apologises for 'mistake' at Diwali party after outrage over meat and alcohol in menu

Edit: reading comprehension failure on my part

 

[MickiQ]

The whole farm thing has made me wonder what happens with other types of business. If you own a working button factory can you pass it on to your kids without any inheritance tax?

A button factory would be a limited company in which the owners have shares. Shares can be inherited and if there is enough inherited then some of them will have to be paid to settle the tax. The thing to do is gift the shares whilst you're still alive or put them in trusts. Look at the Bamfords now on to their third generation and still running JCB.

 

[zahir]

Two questions, which I will caveat by saying I know nothing about the detail of farming/agriculture:

1. Won't the tax simply encourage family farmers to sell up to the big corporates who are steadily taking over the industry and for whom inheritence tax isn't an issue? How is this a good idea?
2. I'm not seeing the political logic in picking a fight over a tax that will raise a relatively trivial amount over the lifetime of this parliament. Food supply, food prices, working conditons and wage rates and a sectoral approach to planning seem - to me - to be far more important issues. As for rich farmers paying their share, great, but a wealth tax would raise more and be far more effective. Why have the fight over this issue?

James Rebanks making the argument for the farmers:

A farmers' revolt is coming

unherd.com

The farmers who never believed a word of it, the hardcore sceptics who focused on productivity-growth, have been proven right, and the idealists like me have been left looking like naïve fools. And to make matters worse, Labour won’t even admit what they’ve destroyed. In the past few months, the very promises themselves have evaporated. It’s as if the last 20 years of talk about change never even happened. The bold environmental promises the Prime Minister made at COP29 are effectively nonsensical without a supported transformation of UK farming.

Labour’s Budget has created a firestorm about Agricultural Property Relief. The so-called “family farm tax” seems to have hit a nerve with people because it is deeply unfair and provides a useful stick for the right-wing press to beat them with.

And it is probably true that with some good succession planning and an expensive tax advisor, much financial pain can be avoided by most small farms. But that’s not really the point. The Budget doesn’t make sense as anything more than a short-sighted tax grab. Taxation should distinguish between working farmers and tax-dodging chancers. By all means go after the big estates. But going after working farms struggling to survive is cruel. Labour should distinguish between land being sold so their owners can make a profit, and land with an inflated value which often creates little or no wealth advantage to those holding it to farm. After all, land isn’t money.

The Budget fails to fit into any kind of coherent approach towards building a better countryside, viewing farmers purely as a source of taxation. Any kind of progressive vision for rural Britain needs farmers in their thousands to be agents of change — which is impossible when they’re under vast financial pressure. When the government cuts farmer support, it reduces the amount of “public goods” in the country — which crudely means less hedgerows, less wetlands, less birds, and less insects. It is profoundly self-defeating.

Many environmentalists have completely misjudged this issue. As less and less of taxpayer’s money goes to farmers, the Government has less and less leverage over how they run their businesses, and less right to ask anything of them beyond pursuing their own self-interest.

Someday, the Government will have to go back to farmers and rebuild that deal. And when that happens most of them are not going to play ball. Many will drift to the populist Right as they have done in America; they will say that if the progressives can’t deliver anything better, you may as well vote for the folks who will cut your taxes. You either believe politicians can come up with the funding for progressive change, and can honour their promises over time, or you don’t. And for most farmers the past few months have killed that belief — both Labour and the Conservatives carry their fair share of blame for that.

Our every field will now have to be worked harder and sweated as an asset. The progressive greener dream for UK farming has died.

 

[zahir]

John McTernan: "We don't need the small farmers".

 

[Smokeandsteam]

James Rebanks making the argument for the farmers:

A farmers' revolt is coming

unherd.com

Thanks for this Zahir.

The article does seem to confirm that the tax proposals aren't some daring raid on the rich by Labour, but merely serve to futher extend the reach and coverage of the big corporates at the expense of independent farmers. On its own merits the policy makes no sense as it raises little and can, presumably, be easily avoided by those impacted. Read as a piece of legislation to help sweep away small holdings and to promote corporate takeovers of land it makes much more sense.

The fact that a piece of shit like McTernan is out advocating for the policy should tell us all we need to know. 'We don't need small farmers, we need multinationals who will drive down standards and quality' etc...however, like Macron, Starmer and Reeves might find the farmers a harder nut to crack than first thought.

 

[teqniq]

Essentially they are all about corporate big business right the way across the boards. What an absolute travesty they have become. Fuck them, we desperately need a proper viable alternative.

 

[Pickman's model]

Essentially they are all about corporate big business right the way across the boards. What an absolute travesty they have become. Fuck them, we desperately need a proper viable alternative.

yeh they've made no bones about being the party of business and it seems we have to take them at their word

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Looks like the fash are latching on to farmer protests later this week

Starmer and Farmer make a handy rhyme so that’s the slogan sorted

Starmer, Starmer, melon farmer

Iykyk

 

[Artaxerxes]

According to people who know more about this than me

The new tax appears to be aimed mostly at large landholders like Mr Clarkson and Mr Dyson who specifically bought large tracts of land to escape inheritance tax rather than actual small holders or farmers who rent (these are most small farmers)

So not sure where all this blood and soil farmers can’t stand this any more is coming from in the form of protest but not like we haven’t seen such before from the media and well off invested in owning huge tracts of land

 

[zahir]

The new tax appears to be aimed mostly at large landholders like Mr Clarkson and Mr Dyson who specifically bought large tracts of land to escape inheritance tax rather than actual small holders or farmers who rent (these are most small farmers)

With agricultural land averaging £9,250 an acre a farm doesn't have to that big to be hit by inheritance tax. It isn't just the Clarksons who will be affected.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

With agricultural land averaging £9,250 an acre a farm doesn't have to that big to be hit by inheritance tax. It isn't just the Clarksons who will be affected.

Maybe important to note that one of the drivers of that price is the scarcity of farmland for sale. Farmers don't monetise their assets very often, and these prices don't reflect the potential income - they're vastly inflated because of rich hobby farmers like Clarkson.

Those numbers mean that a farm that is the average size in an average bit of Britain is over the limit. However, the majority of farms are well below the average size, and will be under the limit.

Farming evidence - key statistics (accessible version)

 

[zahir]

Maybe important to note that one of the drivers of that price is the scarcity of farmland for sale. Farmers don't monetise their assets very often, and these prices don't reflect the potential income - they're vastly inflated because of rich hobby farmers like Clarkson.

Those numbers mean that a farm that is the average size in an average bit of Britain is over the limit. However, the majority of farms are well below the average size, and will be under the limit.

Farming evidence - key statistics (accessible version)

Farmhouses and buildings come under agricultural relief as well. So if you include their value it won't take a big acreage to be affected by inheritance tax.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Farmhouses and buildings come under agricultural relief as well. So if you include their value it won't take a big acreage to be affected by inheritance tax.

Good point. So in the South, in particular, much smaller farms will be affected, again due to non-farming factors inflating prices.

 

[zahir]

Yes. Consider, say, the potential value of an old barn for a residential conversion.

 

[ID47]

Going well for the Starmer..

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Going well for the Starmer..

Who are the 18% who think Reeves is doing a good job?

 

[andysays]

Who are the 18% who think Reeves is doing a good job?

Even Kid_Eternity can't have that many friends...